Lunge / Jump / push forward when driving slow - Page 3 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-16-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mechdork View Post
I think we're discussing two completely separate problems in this thread.

From what I've been reading the first is a "misfire" or "surging/lack of power" at speed. I'm guessing that they've had a few issues with the ignition systems on these. Luckily I haven't had any problems yet with that.

The second issue is a "surge" or "quick acceleration" at very slow speeds... we're talking like under 2MPH here. This is something I experience very regularly and I'm fairly convinced it's a programming "glitch" that will hopefully get corrected in a computer update in the near future.

I notice it most when doing a "rolling stop" maneuver.. like at a stop sign or of a car in front of me decides to start going right as I'm coming to a stop. I get down to almost a creep (under 2mph maybe even slower) and even if I take my foot off the brake pedal it still continues to come to a stop. The second it stops moving it will then accelerate a bit if your foot is not on the brake... nothing dramatic but it can really catch you off guard if you're not expecting it! It's almost as if the computer is convinced that you want to come to a complete stop and there's nothing you can do to change its mind. Seems very strange.

I experience this equally in both normal AND sport mode.
On the second issue.....is this part of the extra cost accident avoidance feature?
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 04:05 PM
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Hi All:

First post here. We have a 2017 Niro EX in red and have frequently noticed the 'lurch forward while stopping' effect. I do hope a future firmware fix will take care of it as its about the only complaint we have on the vehicle after about 12k miles of driving it. When you're used to it, it's an annoyance; if you loaned your car to someone who wasn't used to it, it could be a serious problem!

BTW, in all the time we've owned it, I've seen one other Niro in Maryland and two in Pensacola, FL area. That's it! These things should be selling like hotcakes! Cheers.

Peace and blessings,
Donn
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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 10:08 PM
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Yea, I've noticed the 'lurch forward while stopping' effect a few times in my 3 week old Niro.
For now, it's my only true complaint with the vehicle. It isn't major, but do fear that one day it will catch me off guard and might lead to a fender bender with the stopped car in front.

I'm hoping it's more me learning the car than a true glitch and my actions are confusing the computer.
As I know I have a stop well ahead, I do the "hybrid thing" and let off the gas to coast in EV/light charge mode. As I get closer, I'll apply partial brakes, hoping I'm doing "regenerative" braking and not using the brake pads. At some point I'll decide I need to get more serious about the stop and apply more brake pressure. If this seems to be too much, then as I get a bit too slow, I'll back off again into regen brakes. I may go back-n-forth on the brake pressure a couple of times like this, maybe even letting off completely. This is where I hope my learning the vehicle better will help ... reduce the back-n-forth and have a more linear stop.

I think my lurches have been as I'm almost completely stopped, but about 6 feet behind the stopped car ahead. Not wanting that much gap, I let off the brakes. I think the gas engine cuts in for a brief second at this point, and wants to power the car forward. My reflex kicks in hitting the brakes, thus making the "roll forward" more like a "lurch". At a high level, I think I'm confusing the computer ... it doesn't know if I want to stop or go.

It's curious seeing many complaints here. My 1st thought was this lurch perception of mine was because I'm transitioning to a hybrid after 20+ years of driving a manual transmission.
To me, no foot on the gas OR brake means "maintain" ... slowly coast to a stop or stay stopped if already so (plus factoring any incline on the street). To an automatic driver, "no foot" means "roll forward at idle power". So I thought this difference was my issue, but not sure why the "automatic style roll forward" would result in the gas engine kicking in when I have EV battery power available. On the other hand, it's hard to really tell when the gas engine is running or not ... it could be that a stutter along with the lurch is making me think it's gas cutting in/out.
Seeing other complaints makes me think this is less about a "stick shift" guy learning an automatic which also happens to be a hybrid.

These are just observations and not complaints. So far, I'm loving my Niro.
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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by steve64d View Post
Yea, I've noticed the 'lurch forward while stopping' effect a few times in my 3 week old Niro.
For now, it's my only true complaint with the vehicle. It isn't major, but do fear that one day it will catch me off guard and might lead to a fender bender with the stopped car in front.

I'm hoping it's more me learning the car than a true glitch and my actions are confusing the computer.
As I know I have a stop well ahead, I do the "hybrid thing" and let off the gas to coast in EV/light charge mode. As I get closer, I'll apply partial brakes, hoping I'm doing "regenerative" braking and not using the brake pads. At some point I'll decide I need to get more serious about the stop and apply more brake pressure. If this seems to be too much, then as I get a bit too slow, I'll back off again into regen brakes. I may go back-n-forth on the brake pressure a couple of times like this, maybe even letting off completely. This is where I hope my learning the vehicle better will help ... reduce the back-n-forth and have a more linear stop.

I think my lurches have been as I'm almost completely stopped, but about 6 feet behind the stopped car ahead. Not wanting that much gap, I let off the brakes. I think the gas engine cuts in for a brief second at this point, and wants to power the car forward. My reflex kicks in hitting the brakes, thus making the "roll forward" more like a "lurch". At a high level, I think I'm confusing the computer ... it doesn't know if I want to stop or go.

It's curious seeing many complaints here. My 1st thought was this lurch perception of mine was because I'm transitioning to a hybrid after 20+ years of driving a manual transmission.
To me, no foot on the gas OR brake means "maintain" ... slowly coast to a stop or stay stopped if already so (plus factoring any incline on the street). To an automatic driver, "no foot" means "roll forward at idle power". So I thought this difference was my issue, but not sure why the "automatic style roll forward" would result in the gas engine kicking in when I have EV battery power available. On the other hand, it's hard to really tell when the gas engine is running or not ... it could be that a stutter along with the lurch is making me think it's gas cutting in/out.
Seeing other complaints makes me think this is less about a "stick shift" guy learning an automatic which also happens to be a hybrid.

These are just observations and not complaints. So far, I'm loving my Niro.
Steve, you've touched upon a subject here that I think won't get much attention overall unless more people come to forums like this and discuss. I'm 50 and have been a life long standard/manual transmission driver, with the exception of "rental cars" for vacations etc. I think us "standard/manual" drivers are used to some jerkiness, lunging, etc as it's the nature of the beast with a "standard" but traditional automatic transmission drivers that never or rarely drove a standard, I think when they get into a Niro, with its dual clutch transmission, because it looks, acts and shifts, for the most part like an automatic, when it's native "standard" workings manifest, those "automatic" drivers think something is wrong. One thing that most Niro and any DCT vehicle owner needs to realize is that it is NOT a traditional "automatic", it's more like a AUTOMATED standard/manual, without a clutch pedal. Inching forward in heavy traffic in a dual clutch transmission vehicle (Niro/Ioniq) is NOT recommended as it can wear the clutch faster, same is true for a standard/manual/stick shift, but hey, I'm sure most of us "stick drivers" did it anyway. Us "stick drivers" know that you should never hold the car on a hill/incline, by holding the clutch pedal half way out, good way to burn out the clutch......in a DCT transmission like the Niro, they can roll back if foot if off the brake for more than 2 seconds, hence the creation of "hill start assist".

These are just my observations but I think a lot of automatic transmission drivers are going to notice some differences in "smoothness" with a DCT vehicle.

Steve, have you tried sport mode? I'm just curious what the opinion of a fellow "stick" driver like yourself is. I have to admit, I'm pretty impressed. Having the ability to upshift through all 6 gears, or the ability to downshift just before passing, AND with no clutch pedal, this DCT to me is the next best thing to a fully manual "stick shift"...............and I'm sure this is going to do far better than a true "automatic" in the heavy snow that we can get here in northern NY, to me that will be the final and ultimate test, going uphill in 4 inches of fresh snow that's on top of ice........... time and again in a stick shift I've left the "automatic" in the snow dust behind me, wheels spinning, etc lol....................and I have a feeling that DCT with it's ability to upshift on demand is going to do just fine.

Last edited by eddarrah; 10-20-2017 at 01:11 AM.
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 05:09 PM
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Doing some research on dual clutch transmissions after reading this, I think you guys are on to something:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...e-favor-in-u.s.

Quote:
Honda Motor introduced an eight-speed dual-clutch transmission on the 2015 Acura TLX sedan, followed by the ILX compact sedan.
To ensure smoother performance at low speeds, Honda added a torque converter, but complaints piled up anyway.
Quote:
In 2011 "we found that North American customers were not really ready for this application yet," Kwasniewicz said. "European customers understood the startup shudder. They were used to that. They grew up with manuals and were accustomed to them."
Quote:
"If customers are prepared for it and understand it, then they have no issues," Wheat said. "People who haven't driven a manual transmission expect the car to be smooth as silk, so we have to set the right expectation level."
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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fredct View Post
Doing some research on dual clutch transmissions after reading this, I think you guys are on to something:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...e-favor-in-u.s.
Strange that you linked to that article. I read it before our purchase in mid July and have completely forgotten about it. I'm glad you linked to it here as it reinforces my suspicions. I have to say though that it appears that more and more cars are still rolling out here in the U.S. with DCT's ............... coming from a stick shift background, I can only hope people get used to them because in my opinion these DCT's are truly the BEST of both worlds! and perfect for reluctant "stick shifters" like me that don't want to give up their stick when purchasing a new vehicle,,,,,,,,,,,,it offers the best of a standard/manual and the convenience of an automatic. Brilliant development!
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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:58 AM
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If you take your foot OFF the gas, while coming to a stop, and then lightly press the gas/accelerator again, this MIGHT cause a down shift, which would make the car lunge forward and seem to pickup speed, this exactly what would happen in a standard/manual transmission if you were slow rolling to a stop by coasting, pressed in the clutch pedal, and downshifted from 4th to 3rd gear........... in a Niro, Ioniq or any DCT/dual clutch transmission vehicle, removing the foot from the gas pedal and then pressing it again mostly likely will induce a down shift, resulting in a lunge, a jerk, and perceived increase in speed.......... again, the Niro is NOT an automatic transmission even though it has the shift lever of an automatic,,,,,,,,,,,, it's an automated standard/manual...........
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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 09:00 AM
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Thanks fredct for the Link --- That should resolve the question in my opinion. It's the Dual Clutch Operation. That said, apparently some reliability problems with some MFGs (per the article). As long as don't have a complete breakdown -- I AM HAPPY with our NIRO. I can live with some JERKY. :-)

Information from the link gives me a better idea of How They Work (two gear boxes). I do not fully understand the connection to the drive train, but understand the lack of a Torque Converter helps the MPG and also makes things more jerky).

Per the article.
Dual-clutch transmissions are twin gearboxes linked by a pair of clutches. One gearbox handles the first, third and fifth gears, while the other covers the second, fourth and sixth gears.

With one clutch for odd-numbered gears and the other for even-numbered gears, the transmission can pre-select the next gear the driver is likely to shift into. That allows quicker gear shifts than manual transmissions.

And since the dual-clutch gearbox does not require a torque converter, it's more efficient than an automatic transmission.

Last edited by PAULRIDES; 10-30-2017 at 09:04 AM.
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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 08:21 PM
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On the second issue.....is this part of the extra cost accident avoidance feature?
No I don't have that feature
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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 08:23 PM
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I'm familiar with DCT/DSG transmission behavior. I've been driving for over 25 years with auto, manual and these transmission and I work on all makes and models.

While some of what you describe is typical of the dual-clutch behavior (the lunging forward for example) what I don't get is how the vehicle will continue to come to a stop, even if I press the gas pedal once I creep down to a very slow speed. This is what I believe to be a software glitch.
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