Battery replacement - Page 2 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 01:41 PM
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the PHEV battery has no declared warranty as to what % of original capacity it will hold. In the UK Mitsubishi declared for their Outlander PHEV "This includes a guarantee that if the traction battery capacity falls below 70% in the first 8 years/100,000 miles a free repair or replacement will be provided." Couldn't find any similar statement in Kia, and no sales rep could find an answer. Not a deal breaker for me, I have reasonable expectations of a few percent loss/year. I just came out of a 2013 PHEV Ford Cmax Energi, EV battery capacity dropped about 40% in 5 years, estimated EV range dropped from 25 to 15. Still works perfectly as hybrid, since that portion of the battery capacity (about 2 kWh of the total 7.2 kWh for the Ford) is always reserved. So the plug in component dropped from 5.5 kWh available for pure EV driving to 3.8 after 5 years. Heat is the enemy, either during charging or operation, and these air-cooled battery packs get plenty hot. Ford would only reply that lithium ion battery degradation is 'expected' and would not warranty any lower limit. 10 years/100,000 mile warranty is meaningless unless there is a total failure to hold even a hybrid charge. I was invited by a law firm to be the class representative to sue Ford to declare a warranty replacement level, but declined. Same law firm got the Leaf owners replacement batteries if it fell below 70% in 7 years.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 05:42 PM
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I believe the Cmax has basically no active thermal management of the battery (similar to the Leaf). Passive cooling only. The Niro is a step above that, still air cooled but with a fan. Battery life should be better than the Cmax or Leaf by a good bit.

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-14-2018, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by yticolev View Post
I believe the Cmax has basically no active thermal management of the battery (similar to the Leaf). Passive cooling only. The Niro is a step above that, still air cooled but with a fan. Battery life should be better than the Cmax or Leaf by a good bit.

Additionally the battery is inside the car not outside exposed to the elements, or road heat.


the CMAX is liquid cooled, similar to the volt.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 06:29 PM
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Additionally the battery is inside the car not outside exposed to the elements, or road heat.


the CMAX is liquid cooled, similar to the volt.
Sorry gents, both incorrect, I just traded in my 2013 Cmx Energi PHEV for the Niro PHEV. Cmax battery (actually all EV Batteries) are inside the car, at least never exposed to "the elements". Niro was designed as a hybrid, so they left room under the seat and the cargo bed. The Cmax was designed as a diesel/gas car (been in Europe for years), the USA Hybrid and PHEV jsut stacked the bateeries in the cargo area. Cmax is not liquid cooled, identical to Niro in a fan blows interior air across the battery pack and into the cargo area. This is extremely ineffective - I used a Torque Pro to monitor HVEB temperature, and you would be astounded how hot it gets during charging, use on road in EV mode and heat soaking in a car left in the summer sun. This is what kills LiOn batteries. And why Kia (and Fords) aren't talking about degradation oin their warranty - if you ever pushed them, they might say it is warrantied to work as a hybrid, since it will always do that much
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 08:42 PM
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Additionally the battery is inside the car not outside exposed to the elements, or road heat.


the CMAX is liquid cooled, similar to the volt.
Ahhh...great point on the location! I never thought of that aspect. Duh. The PHEV has a little vent right beneath the left rear passenger position INSIDE the vehicle. That should make a pretty big difference to moderate battery temps.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 09:23 PM
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Sorry gents, both incorrect, I just traded in my 2013 Cmx Energi PHEV for the Niro PHEV. Cmax battery (actually all EV Batteries) are inside the car, at least never exposed to "the elements". Niro was designed as a hybrid, so they left room under the seat and the cargo bed. The Cmax was designed as a diesel/gas car (been in Europe for years), the USA Hybrid and PHEV jsut stacked the bateeries in the cargo area. Cmax is not liquid cooled, identical to Niro in a fan blows interior air across the battery pack and into the cargo area. This is extremely ineffective - I used a Torque Pro to monitor HVEB temperature, and you would be astounded how hot it gets during charging, use on road in EV mode and heat soaking in a car left in the summer sun. This is what kills LiOn batteries. And why Kia (and Fords) aren't talking about degradation oin their warranty - if you ever pushed them, they might say it is warrantied to work as a hybrid, since it will always do that much
.
The air intake for the battery is the vent beneath the seat. In other words in hot weather instead of drawing in 120 degree asphalt urban heated air and drawing it across the battery (which is pretty useless), 70 degree interior air will be drawn across the battery. I don't know if it heats in the winter but presumably if it does, the same effect happens in reverse. Heated interior air would be pulled over the battery.

I think that's pretty clever. Also the peak power draw when charging is only 3.3kw so I have a hard time believing that battery heats up anywhere nearly as bad as a Leaf.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 12:12 PM
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I think that's pretty clever. Also the peak power draw when charging is only 3.3kw so I have a hard time believing that battery heats up anywhere nearly as bad as a Leaf.
During my 5 years with the Cmax I learned to leave the windows open when charging - if not, the car interior was very warm from the battery pack heat during charging in the confined space. You might try your own experiment - plug in your Niro with the windows closed and see how it feels after two hours of charging.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 03:59 PM
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During my 5 years with the Cmax I learned to leave the windows open when charging - if not, the car interior was very warm from the battery pack heat during charging in the confined space. You might try your own experiment - plug in your Niro with the windows closed and see how it feels after two hours of charging.
I haven't noticed any interior heating charging at 1500W.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 05:13 PM
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I hope it last a while the battery assembly is $2941.00. Don't know if you have to change the whole assembly or the batteries can be changed only? Hybrid battery.

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 07:42 PM
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Large cities have hybrid repair shops that charge less for replacement batteries. By the time you need a new battery out of warranty, third party batteries will not only be cheaper, but have more capacity for the same volume. Might even be lighter.

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