Niro PHEV KW (amp hour) meter - Page 2 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 03:59 PM
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Do you charge your cell phone to 75%? it is the exact same thing. If you really wanted to preserve the battery inside your cell phone, you would only charge the device to 75% and not let it drop below 35% charge and would charge it in small incriments during the day, but reality is that nobody does that and yet our cell phones seem to still work and don't break from battery failure after doing everything wrong with them for even 2-3 years.
Well there is very little in common between a cell phone battery and a Kia traction battery. Lithium is in common simply due to the potential energy a lithium atom gives its ionized electron. All the chemistry is in the anodes cathodes and the electrolyte. A traction battery will last between 10 and 15 years of charge discharge cycles maybe losing 10 to 15% capacity over that time. I should not be compared to a cell phone battery its apples to oranges.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 07:21 PM
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Not sure that is right. Many cell phones that are charged daily to 100% lose 10% of capacity a year. That is far more than we would expect from the worst car battery management system. I believe Apple's criteria is no more than 20% over the Applecare period of two years to qualify for a warranty replacement. My 6S lost 17% of capacity over two years. No doubt if we were able to have the excess capacity of humongous auto batteries, we could afford to charge only to 70%, and cell phone batteries would last as long as auto batteries.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 10:59 PM
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I actually do charge my laptop battery to 80% most of the time (100% when I'm traveling though). I might do the same with my cell phone if I had a configuration option that allowed me to say "stop charging at 80%. But my cell phone's battery is replaceable and a few orders of magnitude less expensive than my traction battery. I also don't expect it to last for 10 years or more.


I read a (non authoritative) article recently that suggested that electric car manufacturers design the BMS to initially charge a brand new battery to 80% and then, as the battery deteriorates over time, to increase the charge so that the consumer sees a consistent value on the range reported by the instrument cluster for a "fully charged" battery. Of course, that only works until even a 100% charge isn't sufficient to maintain the expected range because of deterioration.



I've also read that 100% isn't especially bad in cool temps, compared to 100% in hot summertime temps (depending on how hot your summertime gets). I actually prefer to keep my PHEV charged close to full in winter (as opposed to fully depleting it all the time, because that's not good for it either), but when July rolls around, I'm probably going to be looking for a way to limit the charge to less than 100%. Currently, there's no easy way to configure the charging system to stop short of 100%. You can program it to stop at a certain time of day, but that might be hard to translate into a certain state of charge, unless you always start at a certain state of charge and you always plug in at the same time every day.



As owners of cars that use a battery with a finite life and expensive replacement cost, we're confronted with a dilemma: do we go out of our way to baby the battery in order to prolong its life? Or do we use it in a way that is consistent with the owner's manual's guidance, and with no additional precautions, on the hope that if its going to wear out while we own our cars, we want it to wear out while it's still under warranty? I don't know the answer to that one, but I'm tempted to baby it within limits of what's practical/convenient for me personally.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 05:29 AM
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The way I figure it, worst case scenario is that I need to replace the battery out-of-pocket after 10 years (or 100k miles), which I would expect will cost about $2k at that point. Spread that out over the 10 years, and that's $200/year for the replacement battery, or $16/month, or roughly the cost of a SiriusXM radio subscription.


Is saving $16/month worth it for me to have to police my battery charging habits? Nope.


I'll charge my battery fully every day, and use the whole charge every day, and if that causes my battery to fail after the 10 year warranty is done, oh well. For me, that's a cost I'm willing to absorb to not have to lose sleep about how I'm charging my car every day.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 10:03 AM
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I do attempt to keep my laptop charge between 35 and 80% but often fail (would be nice if they had software user settings). It is down 20% after almost three years of ownership. I don't think that is enough for Apple to replace it under Applecare, but my keyboard needs replacing (key font worn off of three keys) so I'm getting a new battery anyway in March or April.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 02:52 PM
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It was my intent to install a level 2 charger for the Niro. Since it's not an EV and only takes 8 or so KWH, I have decided to use the "emergency charger" almost exclusively both due to it being better for the battery and because I can go down to an 8 amp setting and still charge to full overnight. I have decided to trust KIA's programming for any additional battery protection.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 04:31 PM
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It was my intent to install a level 2 charger for the Niro. Since it's not an EV and only takes 8 or so KWH, I have decided to use the "emergency charger" almost exclusively both due to it being better for the battery and because I can go down to an 8 amp setting and still charge to full overnight. I have decided to trust KIA's programming for any additional battery protection.

Are you sure the Level 1 charger is better for the battery? The manual implies the opposite, it recommends using a level 2 charger as often as you can.


I use a level 1 charger exclusively, but that's because it's not practical for me to use a Level 2 charger right now. If my circumstances change and I can install a Level 2 charger, that's what I'll do. Both for charging speed, and because it's what I've seen Kia recommend.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 04:55 PM
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The manual is trying to avoid all liability for poor house wiring. Level one is fine, but should still be on a dedicated circuit.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 07:14 PM
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I don't own a plug-in Niro, so for me it is a non-issue. But you also might want to consider the side of technology leap when looking towards the life of your car. Sure it would be nice to have a car that will last you well beyond the 10year mark. If you were a person who having the car last far beyond the 10-year mark for financial reasons, then I would seriously question why you would be buying this type of car in the first place. the Niro is not a cheap car. I have owned several cars over my life and have driven one of them for 13 years. it was a great car to own, but to be totally honest, the vehicle that it was replaced by was so much more technologically advanced that it was by far a better choice to ditch the old one and not fix it just to get something that was safer. It was a 1996 Ford Explorer Sport. and it did have ABS but not airbags. There was rudimentary traction control, and it was built on big steel but on compartmentalised crush safety zones etc. I replaced it with a 2006 Ford Escape that give me full curtain airbags, crush zone safety cage protection, traction control, rear backup sensors. It was that much more safer a vehicle that it was worth just repacing. I mention it as you are worrying about a battery that will likely die and need to be replaced in 10 years as you PHEV will not give you nearly the plug in distance that you'd like to get. It will however likely run just fine as a regular HEV. But in 10 years they will likely have developed new battery technology that supersedes what is offered today. There will also be new safety technology that will surpass what is there now and likely be worth your while to simply dump what you have as what is new will be just that much better the cost-benefit will more than justify the expense.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 10:24 PM
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Why buy a hybrid? Prius owners often exceed 10 years of service (including original battery) and there are a lot of Prii over 15 years old now. One of the most reliable cars on the road. Makes a lot of financial sense to keep a car long term, especially a hybrid that typically adds a couple thousand dollars to the purchase price over an equivalent car.

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