2018 phev transmission - Kia Niro Forum
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
perk1329's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: e. massachusetts
Posts: 25
2018 phev transmission

i find that my niro hesitates for a second from a stop if i try to moderately accelerate in ev mode. (if i try to accelerate too quickly it changes to hev mode) i expected the transmission to be locked in the appropriate gear and that iíd experience the same instant acceleration as an ev, not as quick as a tesla but instant none the less. whatís going on? is this just me?
perk1329 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 02:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 358
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by perk1329 View Post
i find that my niro hesitates for a second from a stop if i try to moderately accelerate in ev mode. (if i try to accelerate too quickly it changes to hev mode) i expected the transmission to be locked in the appropriate gear and that iíd experience the same instant acceleration as an ev, not as quick as a tesla but instant none the less. whatís going on? is this just me?
I've noticed that too, I think it's related to the fact the Niro has a DCT and the car is held in neutral until you release the brake. The Telsa Model 3 by comparison doesn't even have a transmission (other than a reduction gear) so there's no need for a clutch.

I don't feel the delay often, mostly when I try to start immediately after stopping. I also notice a lag if I shift from R to D without stopping first, the car will continue to roll backwards briefly before engaging first gear.

This is my first car with a DCT hybrid or otherwise, so I don't know if this is a Niro specific thing or a more general phenomenon. I know that early auto-manuals had lots of issues with low speeds and slow starts.

As to the car switching the HEV on takeoff, I really have to give it the beans for that to happen, at least on a full charge. I can apply moderate throttle and (slowly) accelerate up to highways speeds while keeping it in EV mode. If you press hard enough to push the efficiency gauge into the power band you can get the ICE to kick on to provide more thrust.

Takes some getting used to, mostly just learning how to accelerate more gradually.

Jim
Southern Maryland / Washington DC
2018 Snow White Pearl EX Premium PHEV
jmurphEV is online now  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 05:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,873
There are potentially two reasons for this. One is the hill hold feature. Press hard on the brakes at a stop, and there will be a start delay. Try releasing the brake pedal before you are ready to go and then pressing it softly. Your starts should now be pretty normal.

On this Engineering Explained, the hero turned in his 2WD Tesla 3 for the all wheel drive Tesla 3 because launch was better (not delayed). Had an engineering explanation which might also account for your experience, although I'll bet my explanation fixes the problem.

2018 Kia LX HEV Metal Stream with Advanced Tech
yticolev is online now  
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
perk1329's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: e. massachusetts
Posts: 25
in ev without the ice running i would expect it to remain in gear. it originally came up when i test drove the car and the dealer told me to stomp on the accelerator and enjoy the rush. it was there, after the slight hesitation. as iím not in much of a hurry to get anywhere iím actually pretty gentle with the accelerator (i cringe when the ice kicks in much like when my oil burner comes on to heat my house) but i am curious about how it responds versus my expectations. in playing around with the car i find itís quickest off the line in sport mode.
perk1329 is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 10:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,873
It is in gear at a stop, even with the engine running. Technically, it is in EV mode at that point and the engine clutch (not the DCT) is open.

2018 Kia LX HEV Metal Stream with Advanced Tech
yticolev is online now  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 11:42 AM
Mal
Senior Member
 
Mal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 141
Interesting, it certainly feels like it is declutched when stopped foot on brake but electric motors are, by nature, off with no power. Since the IC is stopped, all just seems declutched. When the brake is released, the motor provides power similar to an IC at idle. I don't know if that was done to better simulate a conventional car or to better transition to added "throttle". I'd rather it not but I understand.
Mal is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 01:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,873
The hydraulic clutch for the engine is always opened at a stop. Otherwise the engine would be fighting the brakes. The DCT does have a neutral mode but as far as I know, that only happens when you shift the lever to neutral.

2018 Kia LX HEV Metal Stream with Advanced Tech
yticolev is online now  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 11:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by perk1329 View Post
i find that my niro hesitates for a second from a stop if i try to moderately accelerate in ev mode. (if i try to accelerate too quickly it changes to hev mode) i expected the transmission to be locked in the appropriate gear and that iíd experience the same instant acceleration as an ev, not as quick as a tesla but instant none the less. whatís going on? is this just me?

Not sure if this is the same phenomenon that you experience, but when I roll into my garage I'm going pretty slow. In a conventional ICE powered car that I used to park in this spot, I'd just slow down and creep up to my parking spot (which is less than 2 feet from the wall that I approach as I drive in). In the Niro, and in full EV mode, I seem to always come to a complete stop about three feet from my intended stopping place, and then once I've stopped (thoroughly, even a traffic cop would tell you I came to a full stop) it resumes creeping forward until I get to the place where I actually want to stop (forward parking assist sensors change from amber to red on the instrument cluster). I'm not sure why it behaves this way, I assume it's something about the drive train. I quickly adapted to it (at least for parking in my garage) and I rarely give it a second thought, but I haven't yet dared to try and coach my wife through this parking technique: she responds to technology pretty well most of the time, but sometimes she doesn't seem to have the same "seat-of-the-pants" take on behavior that I have, and so I'm sometimes at a loss to understand what I need to explain so she won't feel surprised.

2018 Niro PHEV Gravity Blue
deltasmith is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 01:04 PM
TK6
Member
 
TK6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 34
I thought that both the ICE and the electric motor run through the DCT transmission?

In EV mode at a stop, it seems like the ICE is de-coupled from the transmission(the ICE isn't running), but the electric motor is still connected, but might be in second gear? If you accelerate slowly, it is pretty smooth, but if more acceleration is needed, the DCT shifts down to first, which causes a delay/lurching. Of course, it's impossible to tell because the only gear indicator available is when you are in Sport mode.

I say this because from a stop in EV mode, simply removing my foot from the brake makes the car move forward immediately, so there is some power being transmitted without applying any gas pedal.

2018 Kia Niro PHEV EX Premium
Silver with black interior
TK6 is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 02:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 358
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK6 View Post
I thought that both the ICE and the electric motor run through the DCT transmission?
Indeed they do, but there is a separate clutch between the ICE and the electric motor allowing it to be disconnected from the drive-train entirely.

Jim
Southern Maryland / Washington DC
2018 Snow White Pearl EX Premium PHEV
jmurphEV is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bike Rack for 2018 Niro PHEV? Sstr Maria Accessories And Add Ons 25 07-04-2019 08:24 AM
2018 Niro PHEV srk Kia Niro General Discussion 46 11-27-2018 03:48 PM
First time poster - 2018 PHEV EX Premium at 2500 miles dhall_silverexpremium Kia Niro General Discussion 0 10-18-2018 11:27 PM
2018 Kia Niro PHEV EX hawke New Member Introductions 22 08-02-2018 04:21 PM
Should I put a non refundable deposit down on 2018 ex phev Drclaw Kia Niro General Discussion 5 06-30-2018 10:21 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome