Battery charging while traveling at 120 km/h - Page 2 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 02:23 PM
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When I use the phrase "charge using the ICE", I mean adding a useful amount of charge back into the battery. I don't believe the Niro is capable of adding significantly to the SoC solely from the ICE. I believe all we see on the flow diagram is the low level charge that keeps the battery at the selected level (sustain mode). I had to make a 2nd trip this morning beyond EV range, and the results were about the same as last night. On the return trip I did see a small positive gain in the SoC (about 5%), but since there was significant opportunity for regen on the return, I believe that was responsible for the gain. On the outbound leg, the SoC gain was zero. I had the same battery percent shown when I switched to Sport mode as I had when I exited the freeway 15 miles later and switched back to EV mode.
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 03:06 PM
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When I use the phrase "charge using the ICE", I mean adding a useful amount of charge back into the battery. I don't believe the Niro is capable of adding significantly to the SoC solely from the ICE. I believe all we see on the flow diagram is the low level charge that keeps the battery at the selected level (sustain mode). I had to make a 2nd trip this morning beyond EV range, and the results were about the same as last night. On the return trip I did see a small positive gain in the SoC (about 5%), but since there was significant opportunity for regen on the return, I believe that was responsible for the gain. On the outbound leg, the SoC gain was zero. I had the same battery percent shown when I switched to Sport mode as I had when I exited the freeway 15 miles later and switched back to EV mode.
I think this is correct, and it makes sense. As you mentioned, charging the PHEV pack from the ICE is absolutely the least efficient use of energy you can imagine. I'm sure the system does not allow for significant charging of the traction pack from the ICE as a general rule for that reason alone. However, I can think of one edge case where I'm pretty sure you can gain "useful" amounts of range from the ICE charging the battery. That's in the winter when you need to heat the cabin which requires the ICE (unless you have the heat pump option). I can imagine that using the load from the HSG / battery charging circuit would be useful in speeding up the warmup of the engine and could add some 'useful' range to the battery.

I've seen the same behavior when I manually shift to HEV mode with significant range left in the battery. The range may increase by a mile or two at most, but in general it stays where it was when I changed modes.

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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 05:02 PM
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Someone posted here in another thread that Kia advised them that when heat is called for, and there is sufficient charge in the traction battery for movement, the engine will start but remain near idle. It doesn't offer any propulsion, just heat for the cabin. How much power it supplies to the battery is unknown, at least to me. I figure I'll find out this fall when it gets chilly enough here in the Seattle area that the heated seat and steering wheel aren't enough to keep me comfortable. Since I have a medical condition that makes me feel cold while others are still comfortable, I know I'll be calling for heat long before most people. We'll see if it helps at all with sustaining the battery under those conditions.

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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 05:48 PM
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Someone posted here in another thread that Kia advised them that when heat is called for, and there is sufficient charge in the traction battery for movement, the engine will start but remain near idle. It doesn't offer any propulsion, just heat for the cabin. How much power it supplies to the battery is unknown, at least to me. I figure I'll find out this fall when it gets chilly enough here in the Seattle area that the heated seat and steering wheel aren't enough to keep me comfortable. Since I have a medical condition that makes me feel cold while others are still comfortable, I know I'll be calling for heat long before most people. We'll see if it helps at all with sustaining the battery under those conditions.
You are exactly right, when the ICE is on in EV mode for heat only the engine clutch remains disengaged so it's just running at idle. As yticolev said, if you watch the energy flow diagram power is flowing from the ICE to the battery and from battery to the wheels. I guess that the engineers at Kia did the math and figured that was the most efficient way to go. My suspicion is that they use the HSG to load the engine a bit to warm up the engine quicker and prevent that energy from going completely to waste. I didn't pay attention to battery range last winter so I can't say how much it matters. My guess is measurable but not a huge amount.

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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 12:32 PM
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Well my Niro PHEV will certainly recharge the battery in sport mode. I do so every week when I go to the gun club witch is 30 miles from by home. I drive it in EV mode till I get down to 5 miles EV range and then put it in sport mode for the last few miles and by the time I get to the range I'm back to 10 mile EV range. Yes the mileage goes down to approximately 40 MPG during this phase of driving be that's a small price to pay. AS the last 5 miles of my drive is up hill and windy I just have a ball zipping along the curves etc. in sport mode all the ehile recharging my battery.


On some of my long trips to my kids home where the speed limits are 50 MPG I run it in sport mode and in the 40+ minutes drive I'm back up to 20 to 24 miles EV or more and at 40 MPG who cares as I'm still doing better mileage than my older Rav-4 and then I go back into HEV mode and continue the trip with a almost full battery etc.


What more can you want I really ENJOY my PHEV Niro. So far in the first 9,000 miles Zero problems..... My second KIA and I really enjoying the driving. My first was a 2011 Kia Soul. Good fun too but lots of road noise. The Niro has much less road noise...................
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 05:53 PM
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Tom, what model year is your car? I'm wondering if perhaps they had it on the '18s but removed it for the '19s. Mine absolutely will not charge the battery via the ICE. It will only sustain the battery charge, and that is all the manual says it will do. I'm not doubting you, just wondering if they made a change in the model.

And I agree that the Niro PHEV is an excellent car. I just reached 3000 miles this morning, and I haven't needed gas for 5 weeks. Plus, it's still almost full. If I didn't have an upcoming trip across the Cascade Mountains next week, I'd probably go another month or more without visiting a gas station.

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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 10:49 AM
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Tom, what model year is your car? I'm wondering if perhaps they had it on the '18s but removed it for the '19s. Mine absolutely will not charge the battery via the ICE. It will only sustain the battery charge, and that is all the manual says it will do. I'm not doubting you, just wondering if they made a change in the model.

And I agree that the Niro PHEV is an excellent car. I just reached 3000 miles this morning, and I haven't needed gas for 5 weeks. Plus, it's still almost full. If I didn't have an upcoming trip across the Cascade Mountains next week, I'd probably go another month or more without visiting a gas station.

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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 12:12 PM
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That's exactly what mine is. I wonder why yours will charge in Sport mode while mine doesn't appear to.

Oh well. I'll be taking a couple hundred mile trip next week across the mountains and back. Plenty of opportunity to see if I can get some charge back from just the ICE running.

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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:04 PM
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I'm not sure either of you are stating all the parameters here. Sport mode is available in both EV and HEV mode, right? Which one are you using to get your results? HEV sport mode should actively add charge (if function is the same as the HEV car), where EV sport mode does not.

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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:44 PM
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Hello everybody,
I have a 2019 LX PHEV here in California with about 7500 miles.

What I observed in my previous long trips (~400 miles) in HEV mode: car tries to maintain the same EV mileage along the road, which includes using EV when too much is regenerated.

What I saw:
- the car is cruising at constant speed on ICE
- after a couple of dozens miles, the ICE stop, the car glides in EV for few minutes
- and then ICE comes back and cycle start again.
So I conclude that cruising with ICE on (never in "charge" on the meter), the car still grab some EV miles and re-use time to time as it considers it as a bonus to decrease your overall MPG.

I never had to use Sport mode to generate EV miles.
I'm just considering that normal HEV management is handling my EV miles saving, maximizing the MPG of the HEV mode in the meantime.

Anyway, my average with this car on long trips ( > 200 miles, HEV mode, no EV mode) varies between a minimum of 47mpg to > 65mpg!
Difficult to get close to that with any gas-only car, even with a small one.
Therefore I'm assuming that some EV regeneration-compensation are done even while cruising in HEV mode.

The job done on this car for the energy management is just amazing.

Christophe.

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