Battery charging while traveling at 120 km/h - Page 3 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:45 PM
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[...] a bonus to decrease your overall MPG.[...]
increase of course

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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:37 PM
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Therefore I'm assuming that some EV regeneration-compensation are done even while cruising in HEV mode.
If you go to the energy flow display, you will see battery charging during ICE operation. No assumptions necessary!

You can garner a good bit of implied information from this display, for example the current load on the car, a combination of speed, incline, wind, and inclement weather or road surface. Notice that your current mpg appears low or high? You can get an idea why.

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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:13 PM
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I'm not sure either of you are stating all the parameters here. Sport mode is available in both EV and HEV mode, right? Which one are you using to get your results? HEV sport mode should actively add charge (if function is the same as the HEV car), where EV sport mode does not.
Entering Sport mode also engages HEV mode, so no there are not two separate functions. It might be nice if it was, but no such luck.

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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by yticolev View Post
If you go to the energy flow display, you will see battery charging during ICE operation. No assumptions necessary!

You can garner a good bit of implied information from this display, for example the current load on the car, a combination of speed, incline, wind, and inclement weather or road surface. Notice that your current mpg appears low or high? You can get an idea why.
The issue with the energy flow display is that yes, it shows the ICE sending current to the battery. But what it doesn't show is how much current it's sending. I maintain it's only providing enough to maintain the charge at a certain level. The flow display has no indication of the amount of current being sent to or used from the battery. Since the traction battery continues to assist the engine, even while in HEV mode, it's going to send some energy back into the battery to hold the state of charge. It could be sending a 1 amp trickle charge, or a 20 amp stream, but we have no way of telling.

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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 08:49 AM
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The issue with the energy flow display is that yes, it shows the ICE sending current to the battery. But what it doesn't show is how much current it's sending. I maintain it's only providing enough to maintain the charge at a certain level. The flow display has no indication of the amount of current being sent to or used from the battery. Since the traction battery continues to assist the engine, even while in HEV mode, it's going to send some energy back into the battery to hold the state of charge. It could be sending a 1 amp trickle charge, or a 20 amp stream, but we have no way of telling.
In general I agree with you but I think as we've been discussing there are a couple of situations where the ICE is running for reasons other being in HEV mode and in those cases the car will direct some of the energy to the battery possibly resulting in significant recharging. So far I think we've identified two of those cases.

1. Sport mode - This results in the ICE running much more, sometimes even at idle when stopped. In this case the car will likely end up charging the battery vs. just maintaining the current level
2. Cabin heat needed in EV mode - If you don't have the heat pump option the car has the run the ICE to provide heat. The car probably uses the HSG to load the ICE to speed warmup and that ends up charging the battery

Neither case is what I would call "normal operations" and so most of us won't see it very often. In normal ECO mode you are exactly correct, the car will work to keep the current battery state of charge while driving. You may see a few miles more or less depending on the specific conditions, but overall the car will try to maintain the level.

I also agree it would be nice to have more detailed information available on the exact flow of energy in the system. But that's because I'm a

It would be interesting to do an experiment to test the second case. Pick a cold day with the battery say at half charge. Start the car and turn on the heat and just sit there. Does the battery charge increase?

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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 10:16 AM
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What is eco mode? Another user setting?

It is a trickle charge in the HEV. But that is plenty to raise the SOC to any level if it continues, which it can in sport mode. I believe there is a PID showing at least voltage of that current if you have an OBD reader. I would expect functionality to be virtually identical between the PHEV and the HEV. Surprising to hear mixed results, some confirming and others failing to replicate results. One small probably unimportant difference: the same HSG is charging the 240 volt HEV and the 360 volt PHEV.

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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 11:38 AM
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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of regenerative braking you get seems to differ between HEV and EV modes. (Just by looking at the needle on the left gauge, it seems like you can get more recharge while braking in EV mode.)

On our trip to the coast last weekend, I used EV mode getting out of the neighborhood, then put it in HEV on the two-lane highway, put it in Sport mode going up the hills, then put in in EV mode coming down the hills. I think it recovers much more energy coming down long hills if you put it in EV mode for some reason.

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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 11:48 AM
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I think Eco Mode is simply when the PHEV is in EV mode. That's all I've been able to figure out.

I don't think a heat pump is ever an option in the PHEV. I believe the e-Niro is the only model with one. With the limited battery size of the PHEV, I don't think having a heat pump would be cost effective compared to just using the ICE in a low power/low RPM mode.

I'm taking a trip over the mountains next week, probably about 250 miles round trip. I'll see if I can gain any usable range from ICE while I'm on the freeway. I'm sure while climbing the pass it won't add anything, as I expect it will still be offering EV assist. And of course there will be a lot of potential regen on the downhill sides. But I'll still have a fair amount of travel that is closer to level roads, so we'll see.

Yeah, I'm a bit myself. I would really like to have more info. That was one of the reasons I didn't get a Honda Clarity. It provided absolutely nothing about EV operation. It didn't even had a charge display to show the time remaining.

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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by yticolev View Post
What is eco mode? Another user setting?

It is a trickle charge in the HEV. But that is plenty to raise the SOC to any level if it continues, which it can in sport mode. I believe there is a PID showing at least voltage of that current if you have an OBD reader. I would expect functionality to be virtually identical between the PHEV and the HEV. Surprising to hear mixed results, some confirming and others failing to replicate results. One small probably unimportant difference: the same HSG is charging the 240 volt HEV and the 360 volt PHEV.
ECO is just the opposite of SPORT mode. I think as atc98092 said SPORT mode and EV mode are mutually exclusive but I don't know that for sure.

In the PHEV there are 2 driving modes that can be either automatic or controlled by the driver: EV or Charge Depleting (CD) mode and HEV or Charge Sustaining (CS) mode. As the name implies in CS mode the car controls the energy flow to maintain the current battery charge level. This can evidently be altered by running in SPORT mode which directs otherwise unused energy from the ICE to the battery.

I think the difference in results is just down to differences in driving style. I hardly ever use SPORT mode so I don't see much extra charging. I also don't preheat the cabin when its cold so I don't see much from that either. tomandsheila431 uses SPORT mode more frequently and so they see more charging effect from it. I assume if someone from a cold climate spent a lot of time heating the car they might see a similar effect.

I expect that the HSG wattage (same for both HEV and PHEV) vs battery capacity between the two versions might be relevant. The PHEV battery is almost 6 times larger than the one in the HEV. It will take a lot more driving in SPORT mode to add the same percentage increase in range to the PHEV vs the HEV.
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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 02:17 PM
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I tend to use Sport Mode when I switch into HEV Mode mostly because I prefer controlling the transmission gear myself. The car will be in 5th very often when 6th is just fine and is a little more economical.

While in SM it will switch to EV and turn the engine off, mostly when regen is available such as coasting. So Sport Mode is not exclusive of EV operation, but it does prioritize using the ICE for motion. It also seems to "sharpen" up throttle response and overall ICE power. I mainly use it when I know I have a long hill climb that stretches the ability of the electric motor to maintain speed or accelerate.

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