EV miles/kwh and range - Page 2 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 08:23 AM
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Lots of options for future BEV buyers in the future. :-)
That's the truth. My lease is also up in 3 years (May '22), and I'm almost certain my next car will be a BEV. Might be a Niro, or might be the upcoming VW Crozz (may end up being called the ID.4 or something like that). Don't want anything smaller, or if bigger not by much. The Kona from all reports is a great EV, but it's also smaller than a Niro and reports are the interior isn't near as comfortable. I just don't think I can live with the Model 3's dash. I don't like the idea that almost everything has to be controlled via the touchscreen.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 02:57 PM
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I have the PHEV, and while I don't generally record my recharge KWH's. I did after one trip which brought my battery to almost nothing (well 20% or whatever just before it goes into hybrid mode). I did 67 km's and it took 7.99 KWH's to recharge. Assuming my math is right that works out to be 5.2 miles per KWH. Not sure if the EV or PHEV is expected to be more efficient in pure EV mode. Maybe the PHEV, as I know if I hit the go peddle to hard the ICE will kick on, so I always drive in the "ECO" zone. Plus the PHEV is about 430 lbs lighter.

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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 03:55 PM
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I have the PHEV, and while I don't generally record my recharge KWH's. I did after one trip which brought my battery to almost nothing (well 20% or whatever just before it goes into hybrid mode). I did 67 km's and it took 7.99 KWH's to recharge. Assuming my math is right that works out to be 5.2 miles per KWH. Not sure if the EV or PHEV is expected to be more efficient in pure EV mode. Maybe the PHEV, as I know if I hit the go peddle to hard the ICE will kick on, so I always drive in the "ECO" zone. Plus the PHEV is about 430 lbs lighter.
That's probably accurate. As you noted, our PHEVs are lighter than the EV. Also, if you drive to never engage the ICE you are treading very lightly on the throttle, so automatically driving more economical. in addition, the EV motor in the PHEV has far less power than the EV version, so it uses less power overall.

Yes, 20% is where the ICE will generally fire up. But depending on your driving in HEV mode, I've seen my battery go as low as 12-13% with hill climbing or other harder driving. But that does seem to be the threshold where your range reads zero and the engine comes on. Of course, when it clicks to 0, it really 0.99, so you have just under a mile before you're "really" at zero.

You got me beat really good. The best I've done in EV mode was 34 miles (54.7 Km), although that was with the A/C on and some up and down hills. Still pretty good!

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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 03:28 AM
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I put in the money for a Niro EV reservation back in Dec’18 without any idea what the car would cost. But I figured with my daily average of 50 miles the PHEV wasn’t going to be a big difference from the HEV. I made a test drive in the EV (first car in Canada!) during the Vancouver auto show late Mar’ 19. No pricing available, but I was hooked. The acceleration, the silence. Yes, I had to take deep breath when the dealer called me 2 weeks later and told me the price. It was CA$8000 more then I had estimated. But I have been looking for an EV for 3 years and the promising Model 3 was just too small on the inside (I sat in one during the auto show). And the base model 3 is equally expensive as the Niro EV (at least here in Canada). So the Model 3 version I would take would be really out of my financial range. So I traded in the HEV with a substantial loss (because of an vehicle accident), but figured that I would drive the EV for at least 8 years without a problem. Which will be a new record, because I never had a car longer then 4 years (because of leasing) with one exception: I once owned a VW Vento for 7 years (125,000 miles): that car kept working.
I can’t lease because I drive too much for leasing. So I financed and while my monthly charge is a bit more then my normal budget, it is about the same cost as I don’t have to buy the gas and the maintenance will also be substantially lower (all they do during annual maintenance is top off brake fluid and rotate tires).
What I also underestimated was the cost of installing the L2 charger at home. They had to pull a lengthy new cable from the distribution panel to the garage: US$1300 all in. But very professionally done and the company was super accommodating to my wishes.
So financially maybe not the wisest decision. But hey, I am not looking back and enjoy the ride every day. In particular the adaptive cruise control is a delight on my commute on the HOV lane. That was not possible with my previous Niro, in which I had some pretty scary moments on the highway. Metro Vancouver is home to the worst driving habits I have experienced in my life, and if I tell you that I have driven 500,000 miles in some 20 countries, I have something to back up my claim. The HOV lane is almost like a VIP lane, and keeping the stress level lower is also worth something.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic!

Peter

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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 05:07 PM
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As mentioned by PBodifee the Niro EV offers far better real life range than spec'd by Kia. I have had my 2019 Kia Niro EV SX Touring (Canadian version of the EX Premium with all options added), since May 6th, I have 9500km on it. I used to drive in Normal and Sport mode all of the time, just because it's fun, but now I mix Eco and Sport modes. My last few charges have averaged about 14.1kWh/100km, compared to about 16kWh/100km previously. I have gone 452km on a full charge and that was in Sport and Normal with a fair mix of city and highway. I have also gone 360km, all highway at about 110km/h, bad weather (about 5C, rain and wind), on one charge and had about 40km showing as left over range. This car is a beast.
With that being said, range depends on: Driving style, weather, temperature, highway vs city, grade of the road (hills vs flat), use of AC or heat, accessories, etc. So there are lots of variables that can affect your range, but you will probably see more than the published range from Kia on a regular basis. Good thing you got the Premium options for cold weather, it will help a lot.

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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2019, 02:33 AM
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With that being said, range depends on: Driving style, weather, temperature, highway vs city, grade of the road (hills vs flat), use of AC or heat, accessories, etc. So there are lots of variables that can affect your range, but you will probably see more than the published range from Kia on a regular basis. Good thing you got the Premium options for cold weather, it will help a lot.
I am tracking power usage while driving using car scanner on the iPhone which can read the data from the BMS ECU in real time. I think the biggest contributor is speed (because of aerodynamic drag). Even acceleration and grade gets compensated by regen during deceleration and down hill (even on minor slope). AC is hardly noticeable for cooling. Today after work my car had an inside temp of 46C. Within 5 minutes the AC had it down to 29C (the outside temp) and within another 10 min down to 22C. Cooling down takes about 1.5kW, once at set temp it takes about 0.7-0.8 kW. To me not a reason not to use the AC! I even leave the car on with AC while I have to wait some time when picking up someone.
Will be interesting to see what the winter will do to energy consumption. I guess it will be again minor dependent on how well the car is insulated. What may be a concern for those living in extreme low temperatures is the fact that the battery capacity will go down (which impacts range). But given that the battery can be fully recharged overnight you must be in real bad commuting situation where you would use all the capacity in a single day.

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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2019, 09:11 AM
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Yes, speed is the biggest contributor to power usage. Even with the ICE. My old Subaru was most fuel efficient around 55 km/h, in 4th gear. I've altered my route to work, now it's off the highway and surprisingly it's a smidge faster. I always knew it was a shorter distance but thought it took longer because of the slower speeds and traffic (28 vs 20 km's).


If it takes 5 minutes to cool the car to the outside temperatures I would have opened the windows instead for the first bit of the drive. You can dump heat a lot faster with the windows open. At least until you get on a highway where it would be too noisy.

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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 02:01 AM
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If it takes 5 minutes to cool the car to the outside temperatures I would have opened the windows instead for the first bit of the drive. You can dump heat a lot faster with the windows open. At least until you get on a highway where it would be too noisy.
I open the windows and tilt the roof. But when I leave work I am within 1-2 minutes on the highway in the HOV lane. So not enough time to do natural cooling.

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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 02:22 AM
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Yes, speed is the biggest contributor to power usage. Even with the ICE.
In an ICE acceleration is much bigger contributor to overal energy consumption. Stop and go traffic is killing eco driving in an ICE, not so much in an EV due to the much higher efficiency at low RPM where there is a lot of torque available.
My point was that basically only speed in an EV is of real influence on energy usage. Sorry for mixing up the terminology, but there is a substantial difference between energy and power. An electromotor can produce a huge amount of power in a very short time interval and therefor use very little energy. So these quick fast accelerations in an EV is not really killing the range. As EV-olution already mentioned, driving in normal or sport mode doesn’t make the car consume more energy. The ‘lower’ modes just limits you in using the power so you are saving some energy. The trick is to learn how to control the right pedal. And it only matters if you go on a road trip and if the stations are far apart.

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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 07:39 AM
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In an ICE acceleration is much bigger contributor to overal energy consumption. Stop and go traffic is killing eco driving in an ICE, not so much in an EV due to the much higher efficiency at low RPM where there is a lot of torque available.
My point was that basically only speed in an EV is of real influence on energy usage. Sorry for mixing up the terminology, but there is a substantial difference between energy and power. An electromotor can produce a huge amount of power in a very short time interval and therefor use very little energy. So these quick fast accelerations in an EV is not really killing the range. As EV-olution already mentioned, driving in normal or sport mode doesn’t make the car consume more energy. The ‘lower’ modes just limits you in using the power so you are saving some energy. The trick is to learn how to control the right pedal. And it only matters if you go on a road trip and if the stations are far apart.
the energy required to reach a given velocity is the same under slow acceleration (low power) or fast acceleration (high power). The reason an EV is more efficient in city driving vs an ice is due to a) regenerative braking and b) a motor with a much broader efficiency band. It is not a power (HP) thing.

For steady (no acceleration) faster highway driving, wind resistance eventually becomes the dominate factor, as you have stated.

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