EV miles/kwh and range - Kia Niro Forum
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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EV miles/kwh and range

I just joined the forum looking for discussions on the EV. Perhaps I'm missing the threads but all I see are discussions on the hybrid, not the EV. So let me ask these two question of those who have the EV:

- What mileage are you seeing? I've been averaging 4.8 miles/kwh, according to the onboard computer. That's using max regen (I rarely touch the brakes).

- What range are you getting? The specs listed a 239 mile range but I've getting a consistent 300 miles!! That's far better than the specs which makes me wonder if it's a fluke, or was Kia being cautious on the specs after they got burned cheating on the MPG specs for ICE cars a few years ago.
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 05:52 PM
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Welcome to the forum! We suggest adding your location in your profile, and you car details in your signature line.

You are right that the majority of forum members have either the HEV or PHEV. remember the hybrid has been available the longest, the PHEV next, and the EV is a fairly recent release. I might have gone for the EV when I got mine, but there were no EX Premium trim models within 800 miles at the time.

I have seen/read several times that the e-Niro and the Hyundai Kona EV are beating the EPA mileage estimates fairly easily, as you seem to also confirm. Of course, it's going to drop significantly when winter arrives, unless you're in a southern state that doesn't see really cold temps. The PHEV has no indication of EV power consumption, and even if it did it wouldn't compare to the EV model, since you have a much more powerful motor and battery.

But I can give another range data point. The other day I had to run enough errands that I used all the EV range. I had a hill I went up and another I came down, and I had the A/C on the whole time. My car is rated at 24 miles with HVAC enabled, but I went 34 miles before the engine kicked on. So Kia has definitely done a good job on electrical efficiency.

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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 06:31 PM
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EPA ratings of EV range are most likely derive from a calculation based on a range of temperatures. Thus on an annual basis, the range may be accurate. Exceeding it under optimal conditions, and failing to meet it under other conditions - like cold, inclement, windy weather; and speed. And I believe the EPA heavily depends on manufacturer data to come up with their numbers, not actually performing physical tests on all vehicles. That is why some manufacturers seem to come in with overly optimistic numbers across their range.

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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Boston View Post
I just joined the forum looking for discussions on the EV. Perhaps I'm missing the threads but all I see are discussions on the hybrid, not the EV. So let me ask these two question of those who have the EV:

- What mileage are you seeing? I've been averaging 4.8 miles/kwh, according to the onboard computer. That's using max regen (I rarely touch the brakes).

- What range are you getting? The specs listed a 239 mile range but I've getting a consistent 300 miles!! That's far better than the specs which makes me wonder if it's a fluke, or was Kia being cautious on the specs after they got burned cheating on the MPG specs for ICE cars a few years ago.
As others have said your actual range will depend strongly on your driving style and road conditions. I have the PHEV and I've been getting ~3.5-4 miles / kWh in EV mode over 18 months and 27,000 miles. Most of my driving is under 50mph with a bit of highway driving each day. I almost always exceed the 26 mile projected range even with the A/C on so at least in my case, the estimate is conservative. As in everything else, YMMV.

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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Good points, ATC98902. I just updated some info in my profile. Hopefully it's visible.

I knew the EV was very new, just not sure how many they've sold so far this year - and how many of those people will eventually find this forum. In fact, I had to wait months before the dealer got one that I could buy.

As for mileage diminishing in the winter, that will certainly happen but the amount might not be as bad as other EVs. Kia offers a "cold weather" package that includes a heat pump for heating the cabin. It's an "option" but always included in cars sold in cold climates, such as this one. So my car came with it (and it wasn't free). In theory a heat pump should be far more efficient than resistive heat because the battery is not being used to general heat, just transfer it from outside to inside. It's the same technology as heat pumps used for residences. It's basically air-conditioning in reverse. One article I found on the Dept of Energy's website says that heat pumps use about 50% less electricity than resistive heating. They were discussing residential systems so that might not apply to the Kia. Winter is coming so we'll see.
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 08:56 PM
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Yes, a heat pump is usually far more efficient, up to a point. Once the outdoor temp drops below around 30F, resistance heat will still likely be necessary to completely warm the cabin. You can minimize that of course by using the heated seats and steering wheel (if you have that) and keep the cabin temp setting lower than normal. Some people (like myself) can't remain comfortable at lower temps, however, so there's still going to be a current draw for resistance heat. My fingers start turning blue, then white, even when it's as warm as 60F outside, so I'll be using the heat plenty in wintertime. Of course, Seattle doesn't get as cold as Boston.

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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 05:48 AM
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I have the Canadian EV SX Touring which is close to the EX Premium in USA. Off course we get the heat pump for free, and also health care for free. But I digress.

I have driven almost 7500 km by now and the average according to the car is 16.1 kWh/100km. Yeah I know metric, pain in the a.. So that is an average of almost 3.9 miles/kWh recorded over 4700 miles. Now consider that I commute about 50 miles per day of which roughly 40 miles is on the only highway we have in our part of the world. But it has an HOV lane, which us EV drivers are allowed to use. So lots of 75 mph, I average about 62 mph on the HOV lane. Which means I sometimes need to make swift passings because some folks actually stick to the speed limit (which is below my average ) And that driving style consumes energy.

In the city I am forced to more moderate speeds and accelerations due to traffic density and therefore average around 4.4 miles/kWh. Still not that impressive if you listen to PHEV drivers, but keep in mind that the EV has a much more powerful battery and motor, which begs to be used. And our city is everything from flat, and who said you should not accelerate when going uphill?

I do drive in ECO mode. Not to save kWh, but to limit my speed (set at 75 mph), otherwise I would be in real trouble.
The kWh is dirt cheap here. At home I pay US$0.085, most public chargers still offer the charging for free! So with an avg of almost 17k miles per year, I am paying US$30 per month on electricity for charging (do almost all of my charging at home). I used to have the HEV which costs me US$150 per month on gas for the same distance (yup, those gas drinkers pay carbon taxes at the pump (about US$0.26/gallon ), electricity here is 95% renewable non CO2 emitting - hydro). So it feels great to have a sporty car, environment friendly and super cheap on the variable costs.

Hope this helps. :-)
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Pbodifee View Post
The kWh is dirt cheap here. At home I pay US$0.085, most public chargers still offer the charging for free! So with an avg of almost 17k miles per year, I am paying US$30 per month on electricity for charging (do almost all of my charging at home). I used to have the HEV which costs me US$150 per month on gas for the same distance (yup, those gas drinkers pay carbon taxes at the pump (about US$0.26/gallon ), electricity here is 95% renewable non CO2 emitting - hydro). So it feels great to have a sporty car, environment friendly and super cheap on the variable costs.

Hope this helps. :-)
I'm convinced my next car will be a full BEV. No more gas. Hopefully in 3 years when my lease is up on my PHEV I can score a used Niro EV, Kona EV, or the Soul EV.


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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSilverFlash View Post
I'm convinced my next car will be a full BEV. No more gas. Hopefully in 3 years when my lease is up on my PHEV I can score a used Niro EV, Kona EV, or the Soul EV.
I gather you just got your PHEV. Why not the BEV? Not available in your state? Or considered too expensive?

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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pbodifee View Post
I gather you just got your PHEV. Why not the BEV? Not available in your state? Or considered too expensive?
Yeah I've had the PHEV for about 3 months. Previous vehicle was a 2013 Volt. After two PHEV's I think I'm ready to wean myself off of gas. I could have driven 4 hours to Atlanta to get a Niro EV, but the price at this time was just too far out of my budget. The Niro EV is $8000 more than the comparably equipped PHEV and that would have been $200 extra per month to lease. The math didn't make sense for the EV Niro (I figured up yearly gas and maintenance and PHEV is still much cheaper at least initially), but perhaps in 3 years when my PHEV lease is up, there will be some used Kona EVs, Niro EVs, or Soul EVs, that I can pick up within my budget.

Plus there might be some used Model 3s within 3 years that are reasonably priced as well. Lots of options for future BEV buyers in the future. :-)
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Last edited by TheSilverFlash; 08-27-2019 at 05:46 AM.
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