Level 2 Chargers - Page 3 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 06:49 PM
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It is possible to get a UL rated EVSE around $200, but it won't be more than 16 amp/3.3 kW, so really not practicable for an E-Niro. But since the PHEV only has a 3.3 kW charger, that's all you need. When my daughter bought her Pacifica, which has a 6.6 kW charger, her husband bought a 40 amp JuiceBox. Even though they really only needed a 32 amp box, I suggested they might want the extra power if they decide to trade their Ioniq HEV for a BEV. It wasn't that much higher price, and he's better prepared for a BEV. Of course, after seeing my Niro, he may want an E-Niro instead.

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by yticolev View Post
Whoa guys, serious misunderstanding here (could be me). I understand 240v is faster, I just don't understand why you need an outboard charger. You are still going through the same plug on the car, going through the same inboard charger. Why not simply connect 240v directly to an outlet? Why the need for an expensive outboard management unit? You will still be limited to the onboard charger maximum speed, right?
you don't need an expensive outboard management unit. The <$200 L2 cord/"chargers" are just a cord and signaling circuits to tell the car onboard charger the voltage and max current. 240v and 16a in this case.

Timers (and other features) in the L2 cord are not needed because the Niro has one onboard.
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 09:18 PM
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So still a bit confused, if the L2 cord is just a cord (plus signaling), it is still the onboard charger that is turning 220 into DC?

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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 09:32 PM
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So still a bit confused, if the L2 cord is just a cord (plus signaling), it is still the onboard charger that is turning 220 into DC?
yes, if we define charger as a device that turns ac into dc, like a
traditional a 12v car battery charger, no L1/L2 cord is a charger. It's just a cord with signaling. The on board charger converts ac to dc.

The L1/L2 standard is 120/240v ac, not a charger, just a cord +. The L3 standard/spec is the high voltage ac to dc charger.

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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 08:33 AM
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Why is cord signaling important? Doesn't the charger crunch the same information? If not, then why not? That seems by far preferential to have the manufacturer device control charging fully rather than a third party device.

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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 08:48 AM
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If you mean an L2 charger, it depends. If you aren't looking for a quick topoff mid-day, the included L1 charger fills the battery overnight. That's all I used for the first couple of weeks. But I plug it in at every opportunity when I'm home, to maximize my EV range. For that purpose the L2 charger is worth it. Especially if you don't overbuy for the EVSE. There's no sense in getting a $500+ EVSE that is capable of 40 amps when the car only accepts 16A max. I bought one from Amazon for under $200 that does just fine. Also, if you have to have the wiring done it will cost less because you don't need as heavy gauge wire as the larger EVSE units.

If you are referring to the brand ChargePoint, then no, you can get any 16A capable EVSE.
Which charger did you get? I was thinking about the one below ..I already have a 240V NEMA6-50 outlet in the garage.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M5VJNQ3...v_ov_lig_dp_it
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 09:02 AM
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Why is cord signaling important? Doesn't the charger crunch the same information? If not, then why not? That seems by far preferential to have the manufacturer device control charging fully rather than a third party device.
cord signaling prevents the car onboard charger from drawing too much current from the wall plug. Doing so creates a fire hazard from overheated circuit wire/cord or will trip the circuit breaker.

The wall plug has a current rating based on the circuit breaker and wire gauge. One then buys a cord compatable with the wall plug. The cord then signals to the car the max current rating of the cord (always <= plug max).

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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 09:56 AM
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I think I got that. I also get that perhaps it is too much risk for the owner to simply manually enter a max current from the plug into the car system and that is why it is not available?

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 10:13 AM
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Which charger did you get? I was thinking about the one below ..I already have a 240V NEMA6-50 outlet in the garage.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M5VJNQ3...v_ov_lig_dp_it
That's very similar to the one I purchased. Mine has a different plug and a 25' cable, but otherwise about the same. Note that this is not UL rated, although the one I bought does say the cord and plug are UL. If that's a criteria for you, make sure you keep looking.

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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 10:21 AM
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I think I got that. I also get that perhaps it is too much risk for the owner to simply manually enter a max current from the plug into the car system and that is why it is not available?
Yeah, I think the primary reason for automating the connection between car and charger is safety. If the charger was just an extension cord then the plug would be live all the time. Imagine plugging in your dryer outside in a rainstorm.

Adding brains to the charger and providing for communications between it and the vehicle allows the high voltage / current pins to be kept off until the plug is connected and confirmed to be in good working order. It also allows the power to be turned off when charging is complete or even more importantly, if the driver unplugs the car during charging.

The ability for the charger to tell the vehicle what type of power and how much current it can provide adds another level of safety to the system.

Looking at the J1772 protocol I saw something I wasn't aware of. The car can tell the charger that it needs to be in a ventilated area during charging. If the charger is in a garage with insufficient airflow it can refuse to charge such a vehicle. I haven't heard of such a thing, but the capability is built into the system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

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