2018 Niro PHEV charger question - Kia Niro Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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2018 Niro PHEV charger question

Hi. Can I buy a Level 2 charger with 32A even if my car states 12A? Also, does anyone know the difference between NEMA 6-50 and NEMA 6-20? I am wondering about the outlet that I need in my garage. Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 05:47 PM
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Well,
The charger handshakes with the car. The handshake is first via voltage. The charger puts out 12v on the pilot pin when not plugged in. When plugged the car pulls the voltage down to 9v the charger then PWM ( Pulse width modulates) at 1000 hz. The width of the pulse sets the charging capability of the charger. If all goes well the car pulls down to 6v and the charger relay engages and power is supplied. When charged the car pushes the voltage up to 9v and the charger relay flips off. The car will not pull more than what the charger indicates for safety reasons. So if the charger indicated 32A the car will pull up to its maximum charge rate of 14A at 240v.

If the charger indicated 12A the car would not pull more than that. The NEMA is about your household electrical distribution. You can't exceed the stated capacity of your home wiring.There are other issues if you aren't using an existing outlet like a 240 Dryer outlet the issues relate to local electrical codes as to things like wire gauge or conduit fuse box etc. Talk to a friend who is a local electrician.
I've not tried it but I bet the car will protect itself and won't draw any more than 14 amps at 240v from a 32A capable charger.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by KiadeNiro View Post
Also, does anyone know the difference between NEMA 6-50 and NEMA 6-20? I am wondering about the outlet that I need in my garage. Thanks in advance!
Pretty sure this refers to the shape/orientation of the pins in the plug. You must make sure it matches the outlet you want to use.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 06:25 PM
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ChargePoint Charger

I have the ChargePoint 35amp Level 2 charger. I charged my Leaf with it. I turned the Leaf in and bought a 2018 NIRO EX Premium PHEV. It charges the NIRO perferctly and I can monitor it from my ChargePoint iPhone app. The charger is in the NIRO and handshakes with the ChargePoint.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Well,
The charger handshakes with the car. The handshake is first via voltage. The charger puts out 12v on the pilot pin when not plugged in. When plugged the car pulls the voltage down to 9v the charger then PWM ( Pulse width modulates) at 1000 hz. The width of the pulse sets the charging capability of the charger. If all goes well the car pulls down to 6v and the charger relay engages and power is supplied. When charged the car pushes the voltage up to 9v and the charger relay flips off. The car will not pull more than what the charger indicates for safety reasons. So if the charger indicated 32A the car will pull up to its maximum charge rate of 14A at 240v.

If the charger indicated 12A the car would not pull more than that. The NEMA is about your household electrical distribution. You can't exceed the stated capacity of your home wiring. There are other issues if you aren't using an existing outlet like a 240 Dryer outlet the issues related to local electrical codes as to things like wire gauge or conduit fuse box etc. Talk to a friend who is a local electrician.
I've not tried it but I bet the car will protect itself and won't draw any more than 14 amps at 240v from a 32A capable charger.
Oh my! This is so helpful! I have asked everyone including my salesperson and an actual electrician but they just keep going in circles.
So please tell me if I understood you right. Since my car is 12A, it will only pull out 12A from a charger EVEN IF that charger has the capability of 32A?

So I do have a 240 dryer outlet but I don't want to use that and was going to get a 240V installed. Then I saw on the side of my garage that there is already another outlet. Then when I checked my metal box that has all the switches in it (sorry I don't know what it's called haha), there were 2 switches in between my airconditioning switches that says EV! I have a feeling that the former owner had an electric vehicle!
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 69385vette View Post
I have the ChargePoint 35amp Level 2 charger. I charged my Leaf with it. I turned the Leaf in and bought a 2018 NIRO EX Premium PHEV. It charges the NIRO perferctly and I can monitor it from my ChargePoint iPhone app. The charger is in the NIRO and handshakes with the ChargePoint.
Awesome! I will look at this charger of yours on Amazon! Thanks. =)
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mathew Schreyer View Post
Pretty sure this refers to the shape/orientation of the pins in the plug. You must make sure it matches the outlet you want to use.
Okay, I see. So I am seeing that the chargers with Nema 6-50s are pricier than those with Nema 6-20s. Additionally, the 6-20s seem to have 12A and are lower than the 6-50s which has 32A.

I saw an outlet at home that is Nema 6-50 so I am just trying to make sure that I buy a charger that could possibly work well with this existing outlet! I am hoping it works though lol
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2018, 07:15 PM
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Oh my! This is so helpful! I have asked everyone including my salesperson and an actual electrician but they just keep going in circles.
So please tell me if I understood you right. Since my car is 12A, it will only pull out 12A from a charger EVEN IF that charger has the capability of 32A?

So I do have a 240 dryer outlet but I don't want to use that and was going to get a 240V installed. Then I saw on the side of my garage that there is already another outlet. Then when I checked my metal box that has all the switches in it (sorry I don't know what it's called haha), there were 2 switches in between my airconditioning switches that says EV! I have a feeling that the former owner had an electric vehicle!
If the Niro only uses 12a you don't need to supply 32a, a waste of money.

This 16a 3.86 kW charger is only $200, vs $500 for the 32a charger.

3.86 kW should charge the car in about 2.5 hrs (1.40kW/3.86kW x 6.5 hrs = 2.3 hrs)

https://www.amazon.com/Duosida-Porta...70_&dpSrc=srch
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Last edited by charlesH; 09-06-2018 at 07:20 PM.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 08:34 AM
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I understand the names aren't that clear. Typically the charger refers to the portable cable and unit and plug one that goes into the car and the other connected to household supply. Technically all this charger is a relay that when triggered by the car via the pilot wire provides the charging current. The car has a converter that accepts the external charger current and modifies it for charging the batteries. So the charging is done by the car using the converter and the current is supplied by the charger. So you could argue the converter is the charger but then everyone calls the external stuff the charger.

Yes the NMEA refers to household power plugs -20 is 20 amp and -50 is 50 amp and the shape of the plug is also specified.
$500 for these chargers is outrageous. They have $10 ( $6 in the relay) of electronics and maybe $80 in the plugs and cables.The 32A is just heavier cabling so don't buy it for a Niro PHEV. If you trade the PHEV in for a pure EV a couple of years from now the 32amp charger will be under $100.
I charge at 15Amp 240v(Level 2) indicated by 25% PWM on the pilot note there can be brief surges up to 20Amp so use the correct wire size and a 25 amp breaker on the mains side.
As to amperage the car is never going to pull more power from your charger than it can handle if it did KIA would be faced with recalls.
The car is not strictly 12amp though that is the max it will pull from a 120v outlet since Level1 chargers max the PWM at 20%.
The car itself senses the 120v so it might no matter the PWM signal still only draw 12Amp. I have not tested it.

At Level 2 (240v) the charger could indicate a wider pulse width compatible with the cable between the house and the car.
The max for J1772 plugs ( plug that goes into the socket on your car) is around 32amp. 100% duty cycle on the PWM indicates 40Amp but 100% is not allowed.

Last edited by picstart; 09-07-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-07-2018, 12:18 PM
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When I bought my 2013 Cmax Energi PHEV I installed a Clipper Creek HCS-40, 30A, 240V Charging station. Like the Niro PHEV, that is oversized for what a PHV will draw, but I wanted to future proof against someday getting an EV (although I really do prefer the PHEV, no range anxiety on a long road trip or having to worry where I'll be able to plug and recharge). So you can oversize it with a 30A charging station, the car will only draw what it needs, no difference in charging rate or cost of electricity - just cost of the station.
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