Level 1 PHEV Charging Stops With No Faults - Page 2 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Took the car in to the dealer today. Asked the sales mgr to borrow another EVSE cord to try. He goes to the service mgr and they say they'll check the problem that it continually stops charging before full. Went to lunch for ~ 90 minutes and looked at the UVO Eco app every 30 minutes or so. After 1.5 hrs it was still charging, but had only increased battery miles by 2 miles and battery by ~ 4%. I went back and service mgr comes out and says everything looks OK. I say "you're only charging at L level rater than M or H and not stressing the EVSE cable or the car, and I can tell since the UVO app tells me it's only charged 2 miles in an hour and a half". He's telling me there's no such thing and there's only Level 1 or Level 2 and how would I know it should charge 4 miles/hr. I say let's go out to car, and I start the car and pull up the PHEV screen to show him the 120V charge level is set to minimum (L). He says it shouldn't matter and normal should be 15-16 hrs to charge with that cable. I tell him to keep testing (after I set it to H level and show him that the charger handshake is all green at the H level) and I'd come back tomorrow. I hadn't even gotten off the lot when I check my app and it already shows car is plugged in but not charging. I get out to waive to the service tech, who had gone to a different part of the service bay, and let him know it had already stopped, but he takes offense and complains to the service mgr I'm harassing him.

I know I should have gone to the service mgr vs the tech, but I was still right there by the service bay & my wife needed to get to a Dr's appt. But, I'm still certain I was getting ~ 4 mi/hr when charging on high at home before it cut off. and ~ 3 mi/hr at M level, and the fact these service people don't know their were different levels in the level 1 charging bothers me, a lot.

Anyone else out there only using the supplied cable to charge and confirm I'm not nuts that we should get ~ 4 mi/hr of charge with it (which says 7-9 hrs to full since it probably slows down when nearing full like most smart chargers)? And would any of you be satisfied to use it on low (which by my calculations could take 20+ hrs to fully charge)? All I really wanted from this visit was for them to lend me another EVSE cable to try at home, not to get into a day long testing session. Calling the salesman before going down there and asking about this, it seemed like it would be no big deal. Wrong. Assuming I get this straightened out, I think I'll start going to a different dealer for service since there are 2 others within about the same distance.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JonPoli View Post
Took the car in to the dealer today. Asked the sales mgr to borrow another EVSE cord to try. He goes to the service mgr and they say they'll check the problem that it continually stops charging before full. Went to lunch for ~ 90 minutes and looked at the UVO Eco app every 30 minutes or so. After 1.5 hrs it was still charging, but had only increased battery miles by 2 miles and battery by ~ 4%. I went back and service mgr comes out and says everything looks OK. I say "you're only charging at L level rater than M or H and not stressing the EVSE cable or the car, and I can tell since the UVO app tells me it's only charged 2 miles in an hour and a half". He's telling me there's no such thing and there's only Level 1 or Level 2 and how would I know it should charge 4 miles/hr. I say let's go out to car, and I start the car and pull up the PHEV screen to show him the 120V charge level is set to minimum (L). He says it shouldn't matter and normal should be 15-16 hrs to charge with that cable. I tell him to keep testing (after I set it to H level and show him that the charger handshake is all green at the H level) and I'd come back tomorrow. I hadn't even gotten off the lot when I check my app and it already shows car is plugged in but not charging. I get out to waive to the service tech, who had gone to a different part of the service bay, and let him know it had already stopped, but he takes offense and complains to the service mgr I'm harassing him.

I know I should have gone to the service mgr vs the tech, but I was still right there by the service bay & my wife needed to get to a Dr's appt. But, I'm still certain I was getting ~ 4 mi/hr when charging on high at home before it cut off. and ~ 3 mi/hr at M level, and the fact these service people don't know their were different levels in the level 1 charging bothers me, a lot.

Anyone else out there only using the supplied cable to charge and confirm I'm not nuts that we should get ~ 4 mi/hr of charge with it (which says 7-9 hrs to full since it probably slows down when nearing full like most smart chargers)? And would any of you be satisfied to use it on low (which by my calculations could take 20+ hrs to fully charge)? All I really wanted from this visit was for them to lend me another EVSE cable to try at home, not to get into a day long testing session. Calling the salesman before going down there and asking about this, it seemed like it would be no big deal. Wrong. Assuming I get this straightened out, I think I'll start going to a different dealer for service since there are 2 others within about the same distance.
Assuming 8.3 kWhrs is needed to recharge:

at 12A I've measured 1450W charge rate. Thus 8.3kWhr/1450W = 5.7 hr (not derated for losses). I've observed ~6 hrs (includes losses) thus: at 10A ~ 7.5 hrs, at 8A ~ 9 hrs

Dealer certainly disappointing.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Salesman called this morning saying that they now want to keep the car for a few days & have a KIA engineer look at it. Not great, but at least it may get to someone who actually understands how the charging system works.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 06:37 PM
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My 2 cents- you may have a connection in that outlet circuit that has a small amount of resistance- not enough to cause the handshake to lower the charging rate, but after an hour or two, heats up enough to add resistance and cause voltage drop which causes the EVSE to shut down (which is what it should do). You wouldn't see this measuring voltage at the start of charging. I would go back and recheck the voltage after a couple of hours of charging and see if there's a difference from the initial reading.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 07:55 PM
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Wrote the previous post prior to seeing you took it in to the dealer. Agree their knowledge of the system is pitiful, although not unexpected. These cars are VERY different from what they've worked on for the past century. I expect they aren't trained much beyond look up symptom, perform test a, b, c, with no understanding of what the tests are or why they are doing them. They are mechanics- not electricians.



But nothing you've explained so far eliminates the house circuit as possibly being issue. The dealer obviously charged at the lowest rate, and who knows what happened when you tried to leave. If they come back with we can't find anything, the car's fine, I would perform the experiment I suggested before escalating.


It is disappointing that they didn't offer to loan you a different EVSE up front. A lot less hassle for you. Maybe because they wouldn't get paid for a warranty service?

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-12-2018, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Kia & the dealer are still running diagnostics as of this morning, so we'll see what they come up with. Oh, I did consider the house wiring as a culprit, so I also tried another circuit. I have a dedicated 20A 120V circuit for a hot tub that I had them put in with 10 gauge solid copper wire (spec for house wire in CA for a 15A circuit is 14 gauge up to 2,880 W and 12 gauge for 20A up to 3,840 W). Nothing else on that line. I did have to use a short extension cord, unfortunately, but it was a 12 gauge copper heavy duty cord made for my generator, so the extra wire shouldn't have mattered (less than 1.5% V drop). I still had the charging stop in less than 30 minutes, so I'm considering the house wiring as a less likely cause.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-12-2018, 03:50 PM
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I'd ask the dealer to borrow a different cord overnight. But yes the techs know almost nothing. Just had that experience at my dealer. I have the LX PHEV. I take it in for service and also because it kicked some really odd 'multiple battery management system errors' a week ago and the 12v battery went stone dead and had to be jump started. Yes in the PHEV it's a separate batter unlike the HEV which just has a reset button. Anyway the service desk guy says they need to keep it overnight because the battery was dead when I brought it. I was all ????? and so he elaborates. The battery was at 6% and nearly completely drained so they have to charge it up overnight to make sure it takes a charge. This went one for a bit and he rolls his eyes at me and says he's been to school. I'm like 'it has two batteries and the one you are speaking of is SUPPOSED to drain when you drive it. I drove 50 miles here and it only has 25 miles of range'. Indignantly he says he's not talking to me anymore and went and got his manager. I took the car home of course but they never did find any codes.

There is almost no chance they will find anything wrong given that they are not electricians. They have been taught at most a simple 5 step 'do this and see what happens' thing. At the end of the day it is either:
1. Your outlet.
2. Your cable.
3. Your car.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-12-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JonPoli View Post
Kia & the dealer are still running diagnostics as of this morning, so we'll see what they come up with. Oh, I did consider the house wiring as a culprit, so I also tried another circuit. I have a dedicated 20A 120V circuit for a hot tub that I had them put in with 10 gauge solid copper wire (spec for house wire in CA for a 15A circuit is 14 gauge up to 2,880 W and 12 gauge for 20A up to 3,840 W). Nothing else on that line. I did have to use a short extension cord, unfortunately, but it was a 12 gauge copper heavy duty cord made for my generator, so the extra wire shouldn't have mattered (less than 1.5% V drop). I still had the charging stop in less than 30 minutes, so I'm considering the house wiring as a less likely cause.
Yes, it sounds like it's not the outlet.

Have you been able to try a level 2 charger on it yet? If L2 fully charges then it is most likely the L1 cable.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 09:15 PM
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Agreed. Make them give you a different EVSE. Bring your existing one to trade- if they're so sure it isn't that they shouldn't have any reason not to swap them...

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Well, my wife got the car back Wednesday (it's her daily driver). Writeup from Kia says the duplicated the car stops charging using the supplied EVSE cable. Per Kia engineer's direction they tried with a different EVSE cable with the same result. Again, per engineer's direction, they used a 3rd EVSE cable and it charged fine (they say). So, you'd think they'd say it's a cable problem & switch it out? Wrong! They just sent her home with the original cable & said charge it on M or L.

Got it home and, as expected, it stops charging on H no matter what circuit I try it on. Charging on L for ~ 2.5 hrs seemed to go OK. Trying to decide whether to call Kia directly, or keep bringing it back in to have them confirm it stops charging enough times that I can invoke the Lemon Law and tell them to replace the whole car or take it back and refund full purchase price plus legal fees.

Directly copied from Kia report Boldface is mine):
271 chargine system concern TECHNICIAN SET UP VEHICLE TO CHARGING
USING CABLE THAT VEHICLE SUPPLIED AND AFTER ONE HOUR TECH NOTICE THAT
CHARGING STOPS AND THERE IS WARNING ON CLUSTER SAY INPUT CHARGING
VOLTAGE LOO(HISTORY CODE P0D27)0PEN A TECHLINE CASE(CASE#12898319)AND
TECHLINE ADVICE THAT TRY TO CHARGE VEHICLE WITH OTHER CABLE LEVEL ONE
FROM OTHER VEHICLE.TECH CLEAR DTC AND USE OTHER CABLE LEVEL ONE FROM
OTHER VEHICLE SAME YEAR AND MODULE AND AFTER ONE HOUR VEHICLE STOP
CHARGING AGAIN
AND BATTERY SOC WAS AT 75%,TECH REPORT VEHICLE STATUS
AND ATACHED ALL CURRENT DATA TO THE CASE AFTER STOPS CHARGING AND AND
NORMAL CHARGING BUT TECH LINE REQUEST AN OTHER CABLE LEVEL ONE AND
RETEST, TROUBLE HAPPENS ONLY ON HIGH/FAST CHARGE, TECH TOOK A SECOND
CABLE FROM ANOTHER SAME AS LIKE VEHICLE SAME MODEL AND YEAR BUT VEHICLE
BATTERY REACHES FULL BATTERY CHARGE/100% BEFORE DUPLICATE CONCERN
, TECH
REPORTED VEHICLE STATUS TO TECH LINE AND TECH LINE ADVICE THAT VEHICLE
HAST TO BE DRIVEN TO MAKES THE BATTERY DRAIN AND RETEST VEHICLE ON
MEDIUM CHARGE. NO PROBLEMS FOUND
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