Link to your Fuelly (best way to report MPG) - Page 12 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #111 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 11:12 AM
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I've only added gas once since I bought it, and that was more to ensure the tank was fully filled for my MPG calculations. I'm currently at just over 900 miles on this tank, and still showing about 2/3 full. I'll probably fill it again when it drops to about a half tank, just to keep some fresh fuel in there. Dash display has me at 200 MPG. Have to see what Fuelly calculates once I do fill it up.

My first fillup had two 100+ mile trips, so far beyond my battery range. That's why it is as low as it is for now. I expect my overall average to settle down around 200 MPG, as that seems to be around my current driving. Time will tell.

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post #112 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 03:22 PM
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Not wanting to sound like a criticism, but what point is there for anyone with a Plug in to even bother with Fuelly? Other than a possible ego trip, what is there to figure out? You plug your car in? Is it like a Tesla owner posting and showing that they get infinite mpg as they don't use any GAS and yet they get to drive?


I just don't see the point.

An ICE only car, it makes sense as you have a certain amount of fuel that you add to your car to fill the tank. As you drive, you empty the tank, and as long as you top back up to the same full level, the amount distance you have driven divided by the amount of fuel added with giving you a number that you can compare against previous trips or other cars. But as the site doesn't have a section for tracking both your electrical use as well as your gas, then what is it telling you? For example, if you had a plugin and drove 20 miles each day and recharged every night, and after 1 month you had 600mpg, are you getting better or worse fuel efficiency against an HEV that also drives 20 miles each day and after a month got 60mpg? Sure the PHEV got what looks like 10x the efficiency, but considering that 100% of the distance travelled each day should have been covered by the plug in electric then why was the 1gal of fuel even used? Is that not a far worse efficiency as effectively they used 1gal of fuel for 0 miles of distance.



Until fueley starts tracking KwH of power along with Gal of gas and can come up with some amalgamated number to compare with another plug in hybrid vehicles then the numbers you get are meaningless.

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post #113 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 04:00 PM
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Well, since the car itself does't report or track kWh used, it would be tough to measure that via Fuelly or any other method. Is it a little ego? No doubt, and I won't deny it myself.

Since the cost of driving per mile is far less expensive using electricity vs. gas (at least for what I pay), it's still a relatively constant way to measure what we are paying to drive. My daughter reached almost 1000 miles with her Pacifica PHEV with only a half tank of gas. By her estimates, her electricity cost for that time period was about $30-40. Her previous minivan would have cost several hundred in gas for the same distance. Yeah, you can't really make an apples to apples comparison between PHEV cars, because of the different ways people drive them. But if nothing else it does show potential customers what is possible while still having the "safety" of having an engine to get you where you're going after you drain the battery. And since Fueleconomy.gov has the average electrical consumption calculated for all PHEV and BEV cars, one can make some educated estimates on overall cost to drive.

So overall, meaningless? Not in my opinion. But isn't it great that we can discuss it without throwing daggers at one another? By the way: I checked on Fuelly and you can't add a Tesla to your garage. I just had to see if it was available.

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post #114 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:06 PM
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The great unknown inside of the PHEV equation in Fuelly is that you can't compare or relate your efficiency against anyone else. Each persons fillup or entry into the system doesn't really have the means to compare how much time was spent running in some form of ICE mode and what part is with the PlugIn.



My interest in Fuelly is that I have a standard size tank compared to every other Niro HEV that is out there. I know that when I drive that a percentage of the power will be assisted by the EV motor inside, but all the power that the car has at some point has to have come from the ICE inside and so by connection Gasoline. Now accelerating, the car might be anything from 0-100% gas powered and when I slow down there is a percentage of the momentum that is recaptured back into an electrical charge. I can filter out in Fuelly to only show me Niro cars and also within a 100mile radius from where I live so I can sort of say that the weather that they are driving in is going to be somewhat simular to mine. This then leaves me with Where, When and How I drive that will likely have an influence against my mileage. I have noticed that inside my search that the largest percentile of cars get around the 5L/100km, followed by 5.5L/100km and then 4.5L/100km.



As I purchased in the start of winter, the vast majority of my driving has been in cold weather that will raise my average. Right now I am stitting at 5.4L/100km, but my last two fillups have been at the 4.5 mark. My hope is that over the corse of the next 5 months, I will be bringing my average down as I will be consuming far less fuel for driving over the summer months than what is required over the winter. As I have some fixed set of rules with my type of car, I know that comparing myself to everyone else will give me some form of comparison to how I am driving compared to everyone else with the same car.


This is where the PHEV fails inside of Fuelly. How can you compare yourself as you are missing the part of plug in electricity to give any meaningful comparison? So you might be getting what seems like a far better fuel economy number, but in fact, is skewed because you might be driving far more in Plugin mode but when you are driving further distances that plugin is not possible, your getting far worse efficiency that simply gets rounded out of existence. How would you know as you can't filter out or account for the "free travel miles" that you get with electricity to know how your Gas HEV driving parts really are doing.

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post #115 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 09:06 PM
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Well, I'll just wrap it up by saying I'm showing a potential buyer what is possible with a PHEV. I completely agree that there's really no way to compare a PHEV with a HEV, or even against another PHEV. And of course it's useless to compare one brand of PHEV against another because of battery size difference. If I had a Volt, I would almost never use gas unless I have to make a very long road trip. Which happens to be the exact reason I bought a PHEV instead of a pure electric. I expect to move to a different work location for a couple of years later this summer, and making such a trip with an EV isn't practical. Especially since I'll likely be staying in an apartment with no where to plug in.

Again, it's just one example of what one person experiences with one particular car in one particular geographic location.

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post #116 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
Well, I'll just wrap it up by saying I'm showing a potential buyer what is possible with a PHEV. I completely agree that there's really no way to compare a PHEV with a HEV, or even against another PHEV. And of course it's useless to compare one brand of PHEV against another because of battery size difference. If I had a Volt, I would almost never use gas unless I have to make a very long road trip. Which happens to be the exact reason I bought a PHEV instead of a pure electric. I expect to move to a different work location for a couple of years later this summer, and making such a trip with an EV isn't practical. Especially since I'll likely be staying in an apartment with no where to plug in.

Again, it's just one example of what one person experiences with one particular car in one particular geographic location.
Here's my last three months in fill up order on a spreadsheet with range per charge on scatters plots on each sheet.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q3y...w?usp=drivesdk
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post #117 of 118 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:52 PM
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Got my first good summer drive up to Collingwood Blue Mountain. As you can imagine the drive is pretty hilly and most of it getting there is up. The round trip was 316km @ 3.6 L/100km (about 65mpg), but what blew me away was the last leg of the trip home I stopped for some gas so that of corse triggered the onboard display to reset on the fillup. The last 62km I had an average of 3.0L/100km (about 78mpg). from an HEV. No plug in battery power here. I am blown away. My last fuelly report was 4.03L/100km on a 30L fillup for 735km distance. Helps to bring by so far running total to a 5.2L/100km average but this is mainly all driving over winter time as I bought the car last fall.

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post #118 of 118 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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LOL Seems we need separate topic for Plug - Ins.

Anyway -- another fill up for me at 28,246 miles using 10.314 gallon + add a 2.14 gallon purchase in between fill-ups (at 27,727 miles).

So, that is 631 miles since last complete fill-up (FUELLY entered) and total of 12.454 gallons = 50.67 MPG

Typical driving between these this Fill-Ups - Mostly county roads at 35 to 55 MPH County Roads and some Town/City with a few stops.

Also, it is an EX Model with the sunroof option, purchased Feb, 2017.

PS: Last statement about the topic of the computer upgrade affecting my MPG, it appeared to affect it for several months. However, at present, the MPG seems to be as it was the first 20,000 or so miles. Just saying, I don't know what was going on - perhaps cold weather had more affect than I thought. Anyway, I am undecided. LOL


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