32 miles in EV mode - Kia Niro Forum
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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32 miles in EV mode

One year purchase anniversary coming up next month. Yesterday I traveled 32miles in EV mode. Same result as 11 months ago. No sign of battery degradation.

We have purchased one tank of gas since returning last August from a 3200 mile trip ( Utah, Kentucky, Utah) . We used some ICE heat in the winter.

9000+ total miles. No problems at all. Upgraded the stock base wheels. Changed oil after trip. That's it.

Love this car.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 08:37 PM
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With such a large amount of capacity in reserve, 15-20%, you are not going to see any battery degradation before that amount has been lost. Talk to us again in ten years.

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yticolev View Post
With such a large amount of capacity in reserve, 15-20%, you are not going to see any battery degradation before that amount has been lost. Talk to us again in ten years.
are you saying the hidden reserve will shrink to zero before the ev range will start to shrink ?

Is that theory just speculation or do you have special knowledge?

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 09:41 PM
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That's how the engineers set it up. No one has yet been able to observe any degradation on Ioniqs or Niros yet. 2016 was the first model year (HEV) and some have well over 100,000 miles. Obviously, it is not possible to have zero degradation. It will be easier to spot on the PHEV eventually, but the BMS is designed for very long battery life (which the reserve capacity helps tremendously - you can't fill the battery to 100% which degrades lithium batteries faster). If you think about warranty issues, obviously it is better for KIA to not have consumer observable degradation before 100,000 miles.

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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That's how the engineers set it up. No one has yet been able to observe any degradation on Ioniqs or Niros yet. 2016 was the first model year (HEV) and some have well over 100,000 miles. Obviously, it is not possible to have zero degradation. It will be easier to spot on the PHEV eventually, but the BMS is designed for very long battery life (which the reserve capacity helps tremendously - you can't fill the battery to 100% which degrades lithium batteries faster). If you think about warranty issues, obviously it is better for KIA to not have consumer observable degradation before 100,000 miles.
It is promising that HEVs haven't seen any problems even with 100k miles. However, I don't know how one can accurately measure EV range in an HEV.

Yes, 9k miles and one year is certainly not proof but if I could see degradation, then I would be disappointed. Most Tesla graphs I have seen show measurable (a few %) degradation in the first year or two.

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 05:46 AM
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Thank you for sharing your experience. Our Niro PHEV is brand new. We have been averaging right over 30 miles per charge since buying it in early May. Nice to hear that it will retain that capacity.

I also am encouraged about hearing you have had no problems.

This is the first non Toyota I have owned since the 1985. I traded in a 2008 Toyota Prius. I struggled with not buying the enhanced warranty at the vehicle closing with the Finance people. I have never owned a Kia but the Niro had outstanding reliability ratings. In the end I decided to trust my judgement on purchasing this vehicle and keep the money for the 3rd party extended warranty in my pocket.

Experiences like yours make me feel much better about just pocketing this money. I have never bought an extended warranty in my life and didn't want to start then.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 06:08 AM
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If it adds any confidence about battery capacity diminishing, our 12 year old Toyota Prius with 150,000 miles we traded in was still getting over 50 mpg. The Toyota battery monitor for the Prius showed the battery charging and discharging same as when new.

We traded it in because of its age. We have another vehicle that is going on 20 years old with over 150,000 miles on it also. With two cars this age and a family that needs transportation we had to do something to upgrade our vehicles to make sure we had at least one vehicle that was newer.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by charlesH View Post
Most Tesla graphs I have seen show measurable (a few %) degradation in the first year or two.
And there is no doubt that the same thing is happening to your car, you just don't have the same data access that Tesla allows.

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:03 AM
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It may not be happening at the same rate as a Tesla though. Tesla allows full charging and discharging of the battery, which for owners that do that will cause more degradation than a BMS that is always keeping the battery between 20 and 80% (approximately) like the Niro.

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:19 AM
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You make some great points on battery life.

I get the impression that this battery technology while continuing to grow is also maturing. Engineers that develop battery management programs as well as this technology have real world data to base their programs and technology decisions on. The Prius and their battery packs have been around for decades now and have experienced very few problems. Also thankfully this technology is getting cheaper. A person can now buy a brand new replacement hybrid battery for a Prius from the Dealer for under $2000 .
In the 150,000 miles of driving in the years we owned our Prius we experience 0 battery, battery management or hybrid issues. I think this is a testament to the current state of Hybrid technology rather than anything special we did as owners.

So far my impressions of the Niro are that it is even more refined than a Prius. Certainly more comfortable and fun to drive. I couldn't be more impressed with this Niro.
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