Not ready for one pedal driving yet but.. - Page 2 - Kia Niro Forum
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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Great idea, I'll try that.

I'll use the E brake for the final stop and use the front ones for temp measuring.

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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 07:11 PM
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Talking about regen breaking, tried an EV on the last week end! very cool car.. liked the ride, all smooth and verrrryyy powerfull... You can stop the car with the left "paddle shift" behind the steering wheel. it's stop quick and easely without touching the breakes.! there is 4 regen mode on the model.


The only thing is if you are on the cruise system, it won't stop the car with the paddles..
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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 09:04 PM
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Incidentally the physics of regenerative braking are such that a complete stop is impossible.
Teslas do the impossible then! You can one pedal the Tesla down to a full stop on regen only. Regen is completely independent from the brakes on a Tesla. Only by depressing the brake pedal do the disk brakes activate.

The motor in the Niro is capable of peak rated HP and torque in both acceleration and deceleration. Why would you think not? The bigger the motor, the better the deceleration and acceleration. Both can be awesome unless otherwise limited by software.

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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Regeneration is always totally separate from brakes by definition. There is an awful lot of quibbling on the Tesla boards as to whether one pedal driving uses nothing but regeneration or uses the brakes for a final stop. I suppose if the charge resistance is enough the last movement of rotor can be stopped by the stator.....and I stand corrected in practice. I know you realize that the brake pedal is near meaningless any more. Software has access to the friction brakes regardless of pedal operation.

The 60hp motor could be used for regeneration in Niro but I don't think it is. I believe it uses the HSG (hybrid starter generator) for regeneration and engine starting. I hope I'm wrong but all the simplified diagrams I see list them as two separate units. The motor I believe is in the transaxle and the HSG connected by a belt visable under the hood. I don't know how powerful the generator is.

Taking Niro on a 500 or so mile trip tomorrow and looking forward to playing with the IR thermometer in an attempt to see where friction and regeneration relate.
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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 11:07 PM
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Regeneration is always totally separate from brakes by definition.
Um, no. Most hybrids and EVs (other than Tesla) blend the two when more deceleration is required. And most historically have done a bad job at this with strange braking feel. The Niro/Ioniq are better than most, which is why you are wondering when the hydraulic brakes add to deceleration.

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post #16 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 11:12 PM
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I have said it on a different thread and will say it again here. The brakes on the Niro are effectively a brake by wire. Take a look at the parts and it is a brake sensor. It doesn't have any hydraulic fluid running through the actual break linkage, rather an electronic sensor that tells a computer how hard you are pressing. This is not like a regular car that the brake pedal has a piston that connects directly to the hydraulic brake pump.





The Niro has a sensor that is more of a potentiometer that detects an amount of travel and converts that into an electronic signal that the computer decides how fast the break is getting pushed along with the displacement and then figured out if it needs to engage the hydraulic breaks or not, or the amount of regenerative braking that takes place.



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post #17 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Regeneration is always totally separate from brakes by definition.
Um, no. Most hybrids and EVs (other than Tesla) blend the two when more deceleration is required. And most historically have done a bad job at this with strange braking feel. The Niro/Ioniq are better than most, which is why you are wondering when the hydraulic brakes add to deceleration.
By definition.... slowing or stopping can use eather or both but the systems are separate. Tesla blends them as well... in certain modes and circumstances. You're right, Niro is sure good at blending them.

I drive my daughter's Lief quite a bit and my daughter can tell when friction brakes start but I can't. Of course regeneration is an order of magnitude better than Niro as it's a pure EV.
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post #18 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 09:38 AM
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Power brake unit is hydraulic and assists braking power. When car fails, it no longer adds power, but the brakes still work, the hydraulic system is still manually activated by foot pressure. Obviously, it takes a lot more pressure than when the power brake system is working. I can promise you the car manufacturers would be facing billions of dollars of lawsuits if deaths occur because a lack of redundant braking circuits. It would be nuts to remove them on cars. Even plane manufacturers where it makes for better engineering resist taking out mechanical systems. On the 737 Max, there were mechanical safeties in place, but the ESU apparently did not allow the pilots to operate them - the last crash the pilots are documented taking the proper steps to correct the electronic controls. Do you want that to be the case in the Niro when all systems go out? Picture driving at 70 mph and your drive by wire brakes and steering no longer work.
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post #19 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 10:28 AM
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Power brake unit is hydraulic and assists braking power. When car fails, it no longer adds power, but the brakes still work, the hydraulic system is still manually activated by foot pressure. Obviously, it takes a lot more pressure than when the power brake system is working. I can promise you the car manufacturers would be facing billions of dollars of lawsuits if deaths occur because a lack of redundant braking circuits. It would be nuts to remove them on cars. Even plane manufacturers where it makes for better engineering resist taking out mechanical systems. On the 737 Max, there were mechanical safeties in place, but the ESU apparently did not allow the pilots to operate them - the last crash the pilots are documented taking the proper steps to correct the electronic controls. Do you want that to be the case in the Niro when all systems go out? Picture driving at 70 mph and your drive by wire brakes and steering no longer work.

Sadly you are wrong with this car. There is no hydraulic piston that connects the break pedal to the breaks. Take a look at the parts and how they are connected. This is becoming more common inside of more vehicles these days as electronics gets more prevalent. The Toyota Prius hasn't had a mechanical break pedal for its entire existance. I think you are confusing the emergency mechanical break that is a wire that connects the emergancy break to the rear hydraulic break system. That is mechanical. But the hydraulic break pedal parts are purely computer controlled.

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post #20 of 80 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 11:21 AM
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By definition.... slowing or stopping can use eather or both but the systems are separate. Tesla blends them as well... in certain modes and circumstances. You're right, Niro is sure good at blending them.

I drive my daughter's Lief quite a bit and my daughter can tell when friction brakes start but I can't. Of course regeneration is an order of magnitude better than Niro as it's a pure EV.
@Mal , You are absolutly right. Thhe Leaf has the same system than other BEV's that can make the car stop with the "forward" pedal.. (can't say gas pedal anymore! hahaha) For Nissan, it's called the "e-Pedal"





Now, for the Niro EV, it's not directly on the "forward pedal", but on the left paddle shifter behind the wheel. and it's fun too use.. did a lot of them on last week-end!
The only minor bug thing is, when you are nearly on a full stop and release the paddle at 1 or 2 miles, the car seem's to set it self on nutral and the car is on the "loose".. but i will get another try of the Niro EV in a couple of weeks for a full week-end and try all of it's feature.!



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Kia Niro 2018 - HEV EX 9000 km - Ocean Blue (Deep Cerulean) 6 months of pure pleasure.!!!



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