Any way to know when friction brakes are used? - Kia Niro Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Any way to know when friction brakes are used?

I am training myself to drive with a light foot to maximize my mileage. The one thing I cannot figure out is how hard I can decelerate using regenerative braking before the friction brakes kick in and turn my hard earned kinetic energy into heat. Is there any indication anywhere which shows when the friction brakes are engaged? If anyone from Kia is listening I think this would be a good addition to the display which shows the energy flow from / to the engine, battery, and wheels. Maybe something that highlights the wheels when the brakes are hit hard.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-01-2018, 12:55 PM
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I'd like a better indication of just that myself. But for now, watch the charge indicator on your far left when braking. When it gets to the area with more green, deceleration is notably increased but I believe still no friction brakes.

All cars get better gas mileage if you slow far before you need to stop or come to a lower speed limit. That applies to hybrids even more so. But to my mind, one benefit of a hybrid is you can drive more normally without annoying traffic behind you by braking later as you will recover some energy unlike a non-hybrid. But slowing even earlier is better if no one is behind you. More energy recovered and less momentum lost (you may not need to brake at all in many circumstances).

Hybrids are notorious for having funky brake feel due to a poor transition from regeneration to brakes. I saw a few complaints from reviewers of the Ioniq/Niro last year, but most lauded the seamless braking. I cannot feel the transition either. That is actually a good thing from a driver's perspective, but it would be nice to have a screen widget for when the hydraulic brakes are activated.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 07:11 PM
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Above, I wrote green area instead of blue charging area. Where the blue line gets wider is the sweet spot for maximum braking.

Reading on PriusChat, Prii have better widgets than the Niro for knowing when the physical brakes are activated (besides the funky feel). With increasing experience in my Niro, it is clear to me that if you never exceed moderate braking, the disc brakes are never engaged until you have reached a complete stop to hold the car. Strictly hard braking, 99% of which can be avoided. Brakes on hybrids usually go 75,000 miles or more before service.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 07:31 PM
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I have no idea, but after 12k miles the dealer told me my brakes have 90% life left.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 08:56 PM
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I really don't worry about it. I try to plan stops a tad earlier than I did before my Hybrid/EV life! I let the throttle up, lightly hit the brake pedal as I get closer, apply more and more as needed. The ultimate goal is to still be in motion as the car in front of me starts to accelerate in front of me. It takes more energy to start from a dead stop than to use momentum to resume speed! Hypermilers Tip #11
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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Hello,
this question is very interesting.
I'm always trying to stay in the "blue" regenerative part of the monitor while braking (if nothing gets in front of me of course ), and I assume that disc-break activates only if I saturate this regen monitor. But it is based on a feeling and nothing technical. It would be great to have confirmation from Kia (technical engineer) that disc get not engaged until you saturate regen, or having a visual information somewhere on the display.

That information is even more useful going downhill in mountain condition. For example, going down from Sequoia Park (30 minutes trip downhill pretty steep), is it safe to gently press the brake pedal all the way down, not saturating the blue regen monitor? Or should I worry about brake temperature and use manual shift for engine brake??

Christophe.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 09:02 PM
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My daily commute includes driving VERY early in the morning when there is not any traffic. I found that if you apply the brakes lightly till the indicator is barely pointing at the G in the word Charge, the brake lights are not on. This to me says that is the limit to regen braking without activating the friction brakes.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 10:12 PM
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It is the demand for slowing that will activate the mechanical brakes if the regen braking is not sufficient. Nothing to do directly with the regeneration rate. A panic stop at high speeds will immediately demand friction brakes - but at the same time (if you could look at the dash in such a situation), the regen will be maxed out - which of course aids in maximum braking.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 01:51 PM
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I have nothing else to add, but I do notice when pulling into my driveway or into a parking spot, that the car will stop before I want it to even when I let off the brake. Once it has stopped, the car wonít inch forward until I step on the gas pedal again.

And I also will let off the gas when I see that I have to stop up ahead so that I donít have to use the brakes prematurely and maybe wonít have to stop completely before traffic starts moving again.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yticolev View Post
It is the demand for slowing that will activate the mechanical brakes if the regen braking is not sufficient. Nothing to do directly with the regeneration rate. A panic stop at high speeds will immediately demand friction brakes - but at the same time (if you could look at the dash in such a situation), the regen will be maxed out - which of course aids in maximum braking.
I think we all agree on this point, the system manages by itself the need of mechanical brake to slow down at our requested pace.
But the question is if there could be any indication that we reach this limit where regen brake is not enough anymore and then the system requires mechanical brake.

As I said, during downhill for a long period, how do I know that my brake pressure on the pedal relays only regen brake or requires mechanical brake?

Christophe.

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