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New disappointed owner

14K views 38 replies 13 participants last post by  Nestor Tee Martinez II 
#1 ·
Hello Everyone. Just bought a 2019 Niro Touring last Dec 15. Loving the car until last Friday, Dec 28 when it wont start the ICE. Its says check hybrid engine system. Maybe i cant handle Manitoba’s winter chills. Hope it will be fixed soon. Advance happy new year!
 
#3 ·
Someone in my Quebec Niro's facebook group had the same problem, was resolved at the dealership. i dont think the canadian chills has a direct effect on this problem!



give us some more news!
 
#18 ·
I live in Northern NY state, 6 hours/350 miles NORTH of NYC, and just 25 miles South of the Canadian border, 60 miles South of Montreal Quebec to be exact....... we have wind chills down to -30 below zero here and it's never affected the cars ability to start. Of course it ALWAYS starts the ICE right away in those temps, we DO get starts in EV only in spring, summer and some of fall seasons. I'm sure that having the 240v hybrid battery and the 12v lithium ion accessory battery under the back seat offer much better shielding for those of us that park outdoors, compared to batteries "under the hood"........... this thing starts great in sub zero weather.
 
#4 ·
My Niro was back for the 3rd time in the dealership last Thursday (Jan,. 24, 2019) for the exact same error.
The first fix they did last Dec 28 was just a reset. Picked it up last January 3, drove for a week i think then after a -16 temperature it didn't start again (January 8)with the same error.
The 2nd fix was that they changed the "hybrid power relay assembly". Got it running since January 18 then last thursday, January 24 after being subjected to - 26 temp, same error. Was towed to the dealership again. Still waiting for an update for the fix this time. I really think that its the subzero temp os freezing the car. Ill be emailing kia canada to have me refunded(buy back the car) or replace it with an ICE car. The Niro is not built for Manitoba harsh winter weather..
 
#7 ·
I really think that its the subzero temp os freezing the car. Ill be emailing kia canada to have me refunded(buy back the car) or replace it with an ICE car. The Niro is not built for Manitoba harsh winter weather..

Really sorry too hear that.! There is something else that will need a fix.! I do not think that the cold is the only issue... We had a "blizzard" last week in Qc, and it got sooo low with a -35c with wind-factor (-31f), and it started with no problem.! Be patient, they will get it fix.. and if not.. change the dealer.!





@deltasmith : I dont think that kia install extra technology for places of the world that are coolder than others.. but it seems to be working #1.. (for me)

@Roadkill401 : Yep, i have seen it this morning, from wednesday till saturday with some -28 with wind factor and a 20cm of snow on thuesday! issshhhh!!!
 
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#5 ·
I've been wondering about how well it would do in extreme low or high temps. Batteries don't like temperature extremes. My limited understanding is that at low temps, they just don't deliver the juice and are also unwilling to take a charge, whereas at high temps (and especially with high charge), they deteriorate. I wonder how other models (e.g., the Prius) do in extreme cold, and if they include extra technology to help with that when sold in colder markets.
 
#6 ·
we will be giving it a try in a few days here in Toronto. If the weather reports are correct we will have three days with highs in the -17c but feeling like -30c. At night it will be down in the -25c. With three days in a row, it will give my car a real test as I don't drive long distances and not every day, so if the battery and electronics are going to conk out, then it will likely be in this period.
 
#8 ·
I don't think that Kia is ignorant about cold weather. Considering they make the cars for the EU market and sell quite a bit in places like Finland and Sweeden, they must know about cold. My wife is from Kapuskasing and GM I know had a winter drive testing facility up there as they have temps in the same range if not worse that what Winipeg has. I would imagine that companies like Kia and Hyundi also have test facilities for countries that have winter. Just becuase there are qutie a few people in California and Florida who get warm temps pretty much year round, doesn't discount cities in North Dakota and Deluth Minnesota. they are close to your temps too.
 
#9 ·
I don't think they are either, I just wonder how the electrical system behaves in extreme cold temps.

According to Battery University, standard Lithium Ion batteries won't accept a charge below 0 C.

According to the owner's manual, the car might display a message on the dash about switching to HEV mode because of low/high temp. I wonder if anyone has seen that in cold weather yet.

The battery pack is protected by a cooling fan in hot conditions. I wonder if maybe that fan also runs in cold conditions to pump heat from the cabin over the traction battery. If so, running heat through the rear ventilation ducts might help in cold weather (assuming the ICE starts and is providing heat, that is).
 
#11 ·
For purposes of battery behavior, I think it's the thermometer temperature, not the wind chill factor, that's likely to be important.

My guess is that attempting to charge the battery at low temps initially results in slow charge, but perhaps also warms the battery to a point where it eventually begins to accept a charge at a faster rate. The owner's manual potentially supports this idea, when it points out that "ambient temperature" can affect the time required to charge the PHEV. This might also be one of the important factors in reduced fuel economy that people have noticed in cold temps.

If this idea holds any water, then it raises some interesting questions for folks who live in cold climates. For one, is it smarter to begin charging the PHEV right after you get home, in the middle of the night, or at a time that will be reaching fully charged just shortly before you leave in the morning? If you begin charging right after you get home, presumably your battery is at a "happy" temperature where it can easily accept a charge. If you wait until the middle of the night, the battery will have cooled off by then and maybe you have to spend a few extra kWh on your electric meter with electricity that wound up going to heat the battery, rather than charging it (but depending on your electric utility, maybe those extra kWh are cheaper in the middle of the night). If you charge on a timer and charging doesn't begin until a few hours before you leave in the morning, by that time the battery might have cooled to ambient temp so you might be paying more kWh to charge, but perhaps there's a benefit in that if it was charging right up until the time you left, then the battery's already warmer than it otherwise would be, and that might mean that you get more benefit from regenerative braking in your morning drive than you would with a battery that was at ambient temperature.

For both HEV and PHEV owners, there might be a second thing to think about: if you drive the first mile or so in the morning in EV mode (without the ICE running, which means no heat and which I admit might be a stupid thing to do if you need a defroster, or if you have concerns that the ICE might not start due to the cold temps), then presumably the energy draw on the battery will help to warm up the battery and make it more receptive to receiving a charge from regenerative braking.

This is all speculation on my part, and I regret that I can't investigate it directly and report back on my findings. I used to live in a cold climate, but I don't at the moment. Instead, my personal concern is how to best take care of the battery when the temps in my area exceed 100 F (38 C) for weeks at a time (which they will surely do about six months from now). I'm pretty sure that in high temps, I should refrain from charging my PHEV to full charge, but I haven't found an easy way to do that. It would be nice if I could program the charging logic to stop at 80% instead of 100%.
 
#12 ·
For purposes of battery behavior, I think it's the thermometer temperature, not the wind chill factor, that's likely to be important.

Made a full charged yesterday night at -21 (-5.8F) without wind chill factor and took 2.5 hours.! This morning, -19 (-2.2) without wind chill factor, and vroum.. all went soft with the remote start with UVO...
 
#14 · (Edited)
We bought our 2019 Niro Hybrid in early December 2018. We have experienced the same issue twice now. It is currently at the dealer. I spoke with the service manager there today and he is requesting from Kia Canada that the hybrid system be replaced in the vehicle. He didn't come out and saw it but it seems Kia Canada are aware of this flaw in the vehicle. I will keep you posted on what happens with our vehicle. If you have any news on how your vehicle gets properly fixed please post it as well.
 
#15 ·
We bought our 2019 Niro Hybrid in early December 2018. We have experienced the same issue twice now. It is currently at the dealer. I spoke with the service manager there today and he is requesting from Kia Canada that the hybrid system be replaced in the vehicle. He didn't come out and say it but it seems Kia Canada are aware of this flaw in the vehicle. I will keep you posted on what happens with our vehicle. If you have any news on how your vehicle gets properly fixed please post it as well.
 
#16 ·
Sad to hear about that. May i know what did the dealership do when it first happened? Did they mention if its the "hybrid power relay assembly" that caused that issue?

My car is also in the dealership for 2 weeks now. They Kia engineers wants to run more diagnostics so what they will do is swap some parts from a known running vehicle from their lot and send the flight recordings.
 
#22 ·
I am wondering if perception might also be a part in the decision.


We have had some pretty darn cold temps out here in Southern Ontario over the past few weeks. When it was at the -25c mark, I found that the fuel economy went away. You have a small electric motor that is likely not getting as much power from an ice cold battery. You have a motor that is designed to add to the power from the electric motor to bring you up to speed as well as it provided regeneration to the traction battery and also provides heat to the climate control. But in these really cold conditions, I have a few questions/observations.


1. When I was driving, the ICE motor was always on and running up much higher than a basic idle. My fuel economy was up around the 11-12 L/200km. I get it was just so cold that you want to have the cabin heat turned on. But I noticed that even with the engine showing 3-4bars on the engine temp display, it was still turned on and running and my battery was near the full mark.


2. Even if I braved the cold with a thick jacket and gloves and a hat. and turned off the cabin heat, the engine was on and an awful lot even if the battery was above the 1/2 way mark, wherein more normal winter weather it would swap over to EV mode.



I don't have a PHEV but am left to wonder if in these conditions the same might be true for it. You charge your vehicle but as it is so cold that the ICE is running regardless all the time not just for heat but also to supplement the power requirements as the EV alone in harsh cold weather just can't keep up. If true, that would raise some irk for customers who will be left asking why is my EV mode not working in wintertime?
 
#25 ·
We're in the USA, Kansas. Same thing, 2019 Niro purchased in December. First time it got really cold, below 0°f for here, started having the same problem. When pushing the starter button, it scanned, displayed "Check Hybrid System", sounded a double chime and no engine started. I had accessory power and could move the transmission shifter, but the car would not do anything else. It got towed to the dealer service, but it had warmed up and wasn't doing it when they went to work on it. It was -7°f that morning but it started and drove with no issues. The problem showed that afternoon, temperatures were over 10 degrees warmer at that time. A week later it was 14°f and it did it again. It seemed to me the problem was getting worse, occurring at higher temperatures as time passed. That was on Feb 8th. They are still trying to find the problem, gave me a free rental car that I drive. I checked with the technician yesterday. He said they've been recording and uploading the car's data many times, sending data to the factory Kia technicians. Hard problem to isolate.
 
#26 ·
Too bad to hear you also have that problem with your new car. We have exactly the same issue except that ours happened at -15 or colder and fairly ealry with just 500+ on the odometer. Your even happened on a posituve 15, right? Our car is still at the dealership rship since January 25 i think. Its already 1 month. They gave us a rental car too. They already swap out some parts and took flight data. The last time they got an error code (feb 8) and sent it to kia canada, they we advised to change the main hybrid control unit. Up until today they told me that the car has been starting everyday and that they are just waiting for kia canada to give a final go signal. I already email kia canada asking to have our vehicle refunded or replaced.
 
#30 ·
If by boat you mean canoe...
To the OP I’d look into your local lemon laws. Usually it’s something about time in the shop. You may have exceeded it already and if so they may legally owe you a new car.

If you let the dealer know you’re looking into it it may light a fire under them.
 
#31 ·
Lemon laws are state regulated and variable. 30 days out of service appears to qualify WA state:

>> Types of Defects CoveredUnder the Lemon Law

The Lemon Law covers 2 types of defects. Each is defined by how dangerous a defect is and how the defect affects the vehicle’s reliability, value and general safety.

Nonconformity
A ‘nonconformity' is a defect that “substantially impairs” the use, value or safety of the motor vehicle making the vehicle unreliable, unsafe for ordinary use or diminished in resale value compared to equivalent vehicles.

Serious Safety Defect
A ‘serious safety defect’ is a life-threatening malfunction that impairs the driver’s ability to control or operate the vehicle, or creates a risk of fire or explosion.

Claim Categories Under the LemonLaw

There are 4 categories of claims that a consumer can prove at the arbitration hearing resulting in a manufacturer being required to repurchase or replace a new motor vehicle:

1. Unrepaired Nonconformity
A ‘nonconformity’ covered by a manufacturer warranty where:

The ‘nonconformity has been subject to diagnosis or repair four or more times including at least once during the period of the manufacturer’s written warranty and during the“eligibility period” (see What Is The Eligibility Period?)
The nonconformity continues to exist
The consumer sent a written request to the manufacturer asking for repurchase or replacement of the vehicle
The manufacturer failed to respond or did not reach a resolution with the consumer within 40 days.

2. Unrepaired Serious Safety Defect
A ‘serious safety defect’ covered by a manufacturer warranty where:

The ‘serious safety defect’ has been subject to diagnosis or repair two or more times including at least once during the period of the manufacturer’s written warranty and during the“eligibility period” (see What Is The Eligibility Period?)
The serious safety defect continues to exist.
The consumer sent a written request to the manufacturer asking for repurchase or replacement of the vehicle and
the manufacturer failed to respond or did not reach a resolution with the consumer within 40 days.
3. Multiple Serious Safety Defects
Two or more different ‘serious safety defects’ (whether or not repaired) covered by the manufacturer's warranty:

Occur within a twelve-month period during the first 2 years and 24,000 miles (the “eligibility period” - see What Is The Eligibility Period?)
Each ‘serious safety defect’ has been subject to diagnosis or repair one or more times at least once during the period of the applicable manufacturer’s written warranty
The consumer sent a written request to the manufacturer asking for repurchase or replacement of the vehicle and The manufacturer failed to respond or did not reach a resolution with the consumer within 40 days.
Note: Whether or not a ‘serious safety defect’ has been repaired is not a factor for a ‘two serious safety defects’ claim.

4. Days Out of Service
Days out of service accumulated during attempts to diagnose or repair due to one or more ‘nonconformities’ or ‘serious safety defects’. The vehicle has been out of service due to diagnosis or repair:

a cumulative total of 30 or more cumulative calendar days

at least 15 days occurred during the period of the manufacturer’s written warranty and during the “eligibility period” (see What Is The Eligibility Period?)
The consumer sent a written request to the manufacturer asking for repurchase or replacement of the vehicle and manufacturer failed to respond or did not reached a resolution with the consumer within 40 days <<
 
#32 ·
Got an e-mail from the service manager this afternoon saying the part has arrived (never specified what the part is) in and is installed and vehicle is ready for pickup this evening...not a chance I am picking up unit tonight as it is still bitterly cold here and I am not interested in trying to start it tomorrow morning and have a no-start issue....
 
#35 ·
Finally got our Niro back.....they replaced the following part - Relay Switch Assembly-V - Kia (375F3-G2000) - can't believe it took a month to get this part.....well only time will tell if issue is resolved.....I may have to wait until next winter because it only fails to start during periods of extreme cold.....
 
#38 ·
I've recently done just that. There's a lot to be said for living "somewhere warmer". It's certainly easier living. And my prospects of having a heart attack while shoveling snow (every day during some months, as I recall) are greatly reduced. But the problem with living "somewhere warmer" is that you find yourself surrounded by a number of bizarre personalities that would never be able to tolerate colder climes. As a prime example, certain folks associated with a warmer place called "Mar-a-Lago" come to mind. Living in colder climes seems to give rise to greatly improved mental hygiene of the local inhabitants!



In the current context, if you want more practical advice, you might want to review DGChicago's experience on this thread: https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/...-complaints/7865-hybrid-system-failure-2.html. It was very similar to what celticmg experienced, except that it turned out to be a fuse instead of a relay, and it looks like Kia has switched to a different part number for that particular fuse.
 
#39 ·
I got our Niro last week of February after having its “Hybrid Power Relay Assembly’s “ replaced. Its been driving great all this time and had the best gas mileage of 3.4L/100km. BUT after reading about oil dilution and observing the engine oil of my Niro Firsthand. I notice that there is a slight dilution basing on a slight increase in oil volume overtime. So Kia Booked me for a “fuel pressure leakdown test” tomorrow. Hope its not too serious.
 
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