Hello from Canada - Kia Niro Forum
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Hello from Canada

Hello. I don't have a Niro yet, but I might as well make the forum stop asking me to make an introduction post. I'm looking at a new vehicle for getting to work and elsewhere. My truck's amazing 14mpg has been putting a hole in my wallet and making me feel guilty for the last little while as well. A PHEV sounds like a good option to me, since the Niro would get me to work for a lot less money and doesn't look quite as ugly as all the other options. I'm also looking at the Toyota Rav4, but the plug in intrigues me.


Anyways, hello.

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mtaylor View Post
Hello. I don't have a Niro yet, but I might as well make the forum stop asking me to make an introduction post. I'm looking at a new vehicle for getting to work and elsewhere. My truck's amazing 14mpg has been putting a hole in my wallet and making me feel guilty for the last little while as well. A PHEV sounds like a good option to me, since the Niro would get me to work for a lot less money and doesn't look quite as ugly as all the other options. I'm also looking at the Toyota Rav4, but the plug in intrigues me.
Hi and welcome to the Forum..

I own a PHEV, and the first question that you have too ask yourself is:

1- How much km do i have to drive from home to work ?
2- Can i charge at work ?



You will need to calculate these 2 question because you will have as a full charge; 42 km available for 100% electric driving before the hybrid system kicks in!


My example: I do 8km per day from home to work and back, so my reality fits in the PHEV model.. but if was more like a 60-80 km per day, a hybrid model could be a better choice!



* a Rav4 hybrid are very nice for the 2019 model, but much more pricy than an hybrid Niro (*called an HEV).!

Dont be shy to ask more questions.!

Eric, The Canadian Guy !!


Kia Niro 2019 - PHEV SX - Snow White Pearl (13000 km)

Kia Niro 2018 - HEV EX 9000 km - Ocean Blue (Deep Cerulean) 6 months of pure pleasure.!!!



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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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My drive to work is 42 km oddly enough, and I can charge at work. The majority of that is on the (90km/h) highway with little to no traffic, and we have a real winter here so realistically the strangely convenient number wouldn't work perfectly. That said, it wouldn't hurt.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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My drive to work is 42 km oddly enough, and I can charge at work. The majority of that is on the (90km/h) highway with little to no traffic, and we have a real winter here so realistically the strangely convenient number wouldn't work perfectly. That said, it wouldn't hurt.
For the winter at the north of the border.. i doooo follow you ... even when the "chinook's" kicks in!
For the 42km! highway or not, you should be ok, but keep in mind that in our canadian winters, you will need the thermal engine to heat the cablin! When i got my PHEV in December 2018, i was able too pull a 1700km on 5 weeks with my fisrt tank.. Lets say that on a cold days.. my 42km full charge could make a 37-38km real drive.. After that, the HEV Hybrid kicks in!

Eric, The Canadian Guy !!


Kia Niro 2019 - PHEV SX - Snow White Pearl (13000 km)

Kia Niro 2018 - HEV EX 9000 km - Ocean Blue (Deep Cerulean) 6 months of pure pleasure.!!!



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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 01:09 PM
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You could also ask the better question on what is your current driving habits? I will assume that you don't just own a car to drive to and from work and the rest of the time the car is still idle on the driveway.



When I got myNiro, there wasn't any plug in option at all. I would hazard to guess that it still isn't really an option here in Ontario as the government cancelled the rebate and most of the manufacturers re-allocated the plugin stock to locations that do. I don't know if a PlugIn hybrid is easy to pick up where you live. But I bring this up as I don't drive an awful lot but sadly it seems to be the worst type of driving around. Quite a bit of short distance trips rather than ones of substantial length or distance. Like, grocery shopping is 2km away. Far to far to want to walk with a whole load of bags. No direct bus route, so you drive. Dance classes for kids, again, can't expect them to walk as it's a bit too far, but not far enough to give the car chance to warm up. With my old gas car I got the same horrible mileage like you get in the truck because the engine never got a chance to warm up and was always running in stop and go traffic lights.


I know I would be perfect candidate for a PlugIn. I did get the 2018 hybrid and have seen a significant saving in the cost of fuel even considering my driving habits. The stop/start I can get savings by accelerating a bit slower and letting the battery/electric motor do more of the work. If your vehicle does lots of the stop/start short trips during the not to work time, then it would be a great option.


But consider as well. You get far more colder and longer winter than most on this forum. Over the cold times if you want to have heat, then your engine will be running. I found when we had the -20 cold snap, and I did take some longer runs. Even though my engine temp was a good 3-4 bars, and nice warm air was coming out the vents, the car battery was at 80% full, yet the car decided that the engine needed to be running full time. Its because the temp of the air coming in was cold enough that the sensors determined the engine needs to run. Sure, in the warmer times you will get a better economy if you can charge and drive full time on battery, but you must realize that isn't going to be all times all year long. The cost of the PHEV is more than the HEV and you might need to do the math to figure out if your break-even makes sense. No point paying the extra for the PHEV if given your driving needs it will take you 5-6 years to recoup the extra cash to buy over just getting an HEV model.

'
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 04:16 PM
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**NOTE** lateral topic hijack


lafe05 - You have your fuelly linked up. I know that you have just gotten your PHEV so you can't read into statistically much. But I do have some questions. You have 3 fillups. The first one was from when you first got the new car and as you have said, you got almost 1700km for your tank of gas that is given you can plug your car in and get the extra 42km per charge. This was starting mid-December through say mid-January. Then the first Feb fill up it dropped significantly, and even more in your second Feb fillup.


1. Did you driving change from the first fillup.. like less highway, or different types of trips out?
2. Did your amount of plugin time change? like missing charing the car so you ended up driving in HEV mode all the time?
3. Was this a heat thing? So cold you have to have the heater on, even with the EV plugin mode


I ask as your latter Fuelly entries are pretty much the same as what I am getting with my HEV. Granted in the Toronto area, we haven't had it quite as cold as Quebec, but it's not too extremely far off. I am trying to gleam what you think effected your fuel economy as I have given up trying to compete with the rest of us people on this board and getting really disappointed as I can't seem to keep the 4.2~4.6 L/100km that everyone else is getting... likely as they are in California, Florida or some other southern state with really warm weather year round.

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GTA - Canada.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill401 View Post
You could also ask the better question on what is your current driving habits? I will assume that you don't just own a car to drive to and from work and the rest of the time the car is still idle on the driveway.



When I got myNiro, there wasn't any plug in option at all. I would hazard to guess that it still isn't really an option here in Ontario as the government cancelled the rebate and most of the manufacturers re-allocated the plugin stock to locations that do. I don't know if a PlugIn hybrid is easy to pick up where you live. But I bring this up as I don't drive an awful lot but sadly it seems to be the worst type of driving around. Quite a bit of short distance trips rather than ones of substantial length or distance. Like, grocery shopping is 2km away. Far to far to want to walk with a whole load of bags. No direct bus route, so you drive. Dance classes for kids, again, can't expect them to walk as it's a bit too far, but not far enough to give the car chance to warm up. With my old gas car I got the same horrible mileage like you get in the truck because the engine never got a chance to warm up and was always running in stop and go traffic lights.


I know I would be perfect candidate for a PlugIn. I did get the 2018 hybrid and have seen a significant saving in the cost of fuel even considering my driving habits. The stop/start I can get savings by accelerating a bit slower and letting the battery/electric motor do more of the work. If your vehicle does lots of the stop/start short trips during the not to work time, then it would be a great option.


But consider as well. You get far more colder and longer winter than most on this forum. Over the cold times if you want to have heat, then your engine will be running. I found when we had the -20 cold snap, and I did take some longer runs. Even though my engine temp was a good 3-4 bars, and nice warm air was coming out the vents, the car battery was at 80% full, yet the car decided that the engine needed to be running full time. Its because the temp of the air coming in was cold enough that the sensors determined the engine needs to run. Sure, in the warmer times you will get a better economy if you can charge and drive full time on battery, but you must realize that isn't going to be all times all year long. The cost of the PHEV is more than the HEV and you might need to do the math to figure out if your break-even makes sense. No point paying the extra for the PHEV if given your driving needs it will take you 5-6 years to recoup the extra cash to buy over just getting an HEV model.

'
I sympathize with your situation and I can relate to it.



It wasn't that long ago that I was living in Maine and had a similar driving regimen. I work from home so I don't have a daily commute, but I tend to make lots of short trips around town. When I lived in Maine, my Toyota pickup was usually just barely beginning to throw some heat on the coldest winter days when I would arrive at my local grocery store and shut the engine off. If I was doing that same drive with my PHEV Niro today, I think psychologically I might be irked by the desire to make the whole drive in EV mode, and not have any cabin heat, but realistically, it would have worked out about the same in terms of comfort, because the truck never got warm either. I haven't tried this with the Niro in a truly cold climate, but my impression is that my Niro starts throwing at least a tiny bit of heat sooner than my old Toyota pickup would under the same conditions. Neither one would throw a useful amount of heat on a two or three mile trip to the grocery store in 10 degrees F weather though.


In terms of fuel economy, my PHEV is great for my kind of driving. I take it out several times a week. I last filled the tank on Jan 2, and the tank is still reading full. Almost all of my miles since Jan 2 have been all-electric. But I'm in Southern California, and it's easier to run around without heat here than it is where I used to live in Maine or where you live.


The PHEV also has some small advantages over the HEV in terms of driving in heavy traffic congestion, and at times when you need more power than the ICE can deliver (long mountain climbs). But as you point out, it is pricey compared to the HEV. And if you are in this solely for the economic considerations, then there are probably a lot of situations where the HEV is the better choice.


On a slightly tangential note: when I'm driving in EV mode, and deliberately refraining from engaging the ICE, the car feels kind of lethargic and lumbering (if I recall, we've only got about 40 HP in EV mode). But it's still peppy enough that I can still take off from a red light on just EV power and accelerate faster than maybe 80% of the other cars stopped at that same light, most of the time. But a few months ago I found myself in an awkward situation: I was first in line at a red light, but there were a lot of cars lined up behind me and I needed to move over one lane when the light turned green, and I only had about 50 yards to do that in or I would miss my turn. So I kicked the car into sport mode, the ICE started, and about two seconds later the light turned green. I hit the accelerator a little harder than I normally do, because I wanted to get out in front of the car next to me in order to have room to change lanes. But I was accelerating based on my experience with EV mode, not Sport mode, and I was astonished to experience my humble little Niro not just "squawking the tires" but literally "burning rubber" as if it was some kind of muscle car. Wasn't intentional, and it's not my usual way of driving, but after I got over the brief period of shock and surprise, it made me smile just a little bit.

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadkill401 View Post
**NOTE** lateral topic hijack


lafe05 - You have your fuelly linked up. I know that you have just gotten your PHEV so you can't read into statistically much. But I do have some questions. You have 3 fillups. The first one was from when you first got the new car and as you have said, you got almost 1700km for your tank of gas that is given you can plug your car in and get the extra 42km per charge. This was starting mid-December through say mid-January. Then the first Feb fill up it dropped significantly, and even more in your second Feb fillup.


1. Did you driving change from the first fillup.. like less highway, or different types of trips out?
2. Did your amount of plugin time change? like missing charing the car so you ended up driving in HEV mode all the time?
3. Was this a heat thing? So cold you have to have the heater on, even with the EV plugin mode


I ask as your latter Fuelly entries are pretty much the same as what I am getting with my HEV. Granted in the Toronto area, we haven't had it quite as cold as Quebec, but it's not too extremely far off. I am trying to gleam what you think effected your fuel economy as I have given up trying to compete with the rest of us people on this board and getting really disappointed as I can't seem to keep the 4.2~4.6 L/100km that everyone else is getting... likely as they are in California, Florida or some other southern state with really warm weather year round.

Hi, Gooodd question!
So, yes i got the car on December 14 2018 and filled up for the first time on January the 7 2019 with 1700 km on it.

I was soooo glad to have the PHEV, that it was plugged all days. at home, work, and public charger. So the 42 km battery autonomy was always full for my 8km commute per day. Now, since i am like a polar bear and the temperature was mildly in the + and 0c, for testing issues, i had not (~95%) trigger the heating from home too work too home.

Did a lot of shopping and other activities around town (60-75km both way) and with a diameter of 42km heads up to start with, I did more km fuel free if you find a place where you are heading that has a public charger.!But when driving too visit family like at Christmas time (must on highways) with my wife and kids, I had no choice too heat up the cabin on HEV mode. It still gave me a 2.4L/100km…

As an old HEV and PHEV owner, I noticed that the 875km HEV range when you fill up goes down to 795km on a PHEV.. BUT, on the other end, it is fun to decide when you want the ICE to kick in or not by a push of a button.* Note that the HEV has a 45L tank and the PHEV, a 43L tank... (-2L).


But after the first fill-up.. all He!! broke loose.! The -15c, -20c + windshield factor clashed down my expectation on my MPG. Even for the polar bear, heat was on, and i did jump some days at home and work for charging on the L1 charger (snow storm, cold etc.).I did not want too leave my L1 Charger box-convertor in the open snow falls and storms that we had. But still did a lot of public charges when I could do so.


That dropped down (A LOT) to my next fill up too 5.6L/100km. and 6.7L/100km. The gas tank i am running on now should be better because i can now access a L2 public charger next too work, and will have my L2 charger at home before April.


I was aware that the cold could affect the MPG in the winter, but, i still do think that the PHEV if you have too drive in a radius of 42km if you have a good charger installed at home and work, and on the HEV mode, its still a very economic car.


I can’t wait to see what will be my MPG in April through October.


Eric, The Canadian Guy !!


Kia Niro 2019 - PHEV SX - Snow White Pearl (13000 km)

Kia Niro 2018 - HEV EX 9000 km - Ocean Blue (Deep Cerulean) 6 months of pure pleasure.!!!



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Last edited by lafe005; 03-05-2019 at 01:39 PM.
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