I'm considering a Niro PHEV. Unfortunately my dealership doesn't have any on the lot. They did have plenty of the non PHEV Niros though. I took one for a drive and thought it was a nice ride. I didn't care for the toggle switches on the steering wheel. My main question is how does the HEV system compare on the PHEV? I noticed that it was really easy to get the motor to kick on in the HEV. Does that happen with the PHEV as well or does it take a lot more call for acceleration/load to make the engine turn on? I'm aware that there is no electric heater and the heater requires the engine to heat up. I was driving with the climate off. Thanks.
2018 Niro PHEV
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Can it fully force EV mode though? I keep reading that the Niro PHEV simply can't do full EV driving (like the Chevy Volt for example).
If the battery is low, the engine will turn on. But you want that anyway to ensure battery life. It is also possible if you floor it, the engine will turn on. Same with a steep hill where you have exceeded available torque of the traction motor for your pedal position. If you have interior heating needs, the engine will also turn on. Otherwise, it is EV force. It should stay EV in most scenarios, like the moderate acceleration needed for merging with traffic.
The Volt has a far larger traction motor so it does't need (or is helped) by the engine. The Volt engine will also turn on when the battery is low but in many circumstances it is not driving the wheels directly but rather acting as a generator to charge the battery. I think the Volt has a resistance heater so warming the interior will not start the engine.
The Niro is dependent on normal engine heat for interior warming so that is part of the mpg hit in the winter. Summer is different as the AC is electrically driven. Not sure how the Volt AC works but it would be more sensible if it is also electrically driven. But of course Volt winter range will take an added hit with the resistance heating.
The Volt has a far larger traction motor so it does't need (or is helped) by the engine. The Volt engine will also turn on when the battery is low but in many circumstances it is not driving the wheels directly but rather acting as a generator to charge the battery. I think the Volt has a resistance heater so warming the interior will not start the engine.
The Niro is dependent on normal engine heat for interior warming so that is part of the mpg hit in the winter. Summer is different as the AC is electrically driven. Not sure how the Volt AC works but it would be more sensible if it is also electrically driven. But of course Volt winter range will take an added hit with the resistance heating.
We picked up our Kia Plug-in Hybrid last week (Tampa Bay area purchase); dealer didn't fully charge the vehicle, so drove home to the Orlando area in hybrid mode. Gas gauge showed 51mpg; not too shabby for an SUV (I've driven rental Prius that didn't get anywhere near that.)
We have a solar electric system recently installed at the house, and I had an electrician put in both 110v and 220v outlets. I purchased a 220v portable charger from Amazon for about $250 (looks just like the 110v that comes with the vehicle). So now I can use solar power to fully charge the battery.
The gauge on the dash shows 26 miles in EV range when the battery is fully charged. I've taken a couple of 20 mile (each way) trips so far, and when you start out, the mode starts in EV. Other than a rapid acceleration to get on the expressway, the mode stayed in EV all the way to my destination; most of the trip at 72-3 mph on the expressway. Returning home, when the battery got to the low range and the gauge showed about 3 miles remaining range, the mode switched to hybrid and the engine came on for most of the remaining distance of the trip, but switched back and forth to EV when decelerating or very slow speeds in traffic.
We have a solar electric system recently installed at the house, and I had an electrician put in both 110v and 220v outlets. I purchased a 220v portable charger from Amazon for about $250 (looks just like the 110v that comes with the vehicle). So now I can use solar power to fully charge the battery.
The gauge on the dash shows 26 miles in EV range when the battery is fully charged. I've taken a couple of 20 mile (each way) trips so far, and when you start out, the mode starts in EV. Other than a rapid acceleration to get on the expressway, the mode stayed in EV all the way to my destination; most of the trip at 72-3 mph on the expressway. Returning home, when the battery got to the low range and the gauge showed about 3 miles remaining range, the mode switched to hybrid and the engine came on for most of the remaining distance of the trip, but switched back and forth to EV when decelerating or very slow speeds in traffic.
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Power Outlet
I'm considering purchasing the 2018 Kia Niro PHEV and was curious if the 115V power outlet inside the vehicle has power to it when the vehicle is "OFF"? Basically when the vehicle is off will the plug still work?
I would also like to know if it is getting its power from the 12V battery or the lithium ion battery? The second question may need to be answered by a Kia tech.
I'm considering purchasing the 2018 Kia Niro PHEV and was curious if the 115V power outlet inside the vehicle has power to it when the vehicle is "OFF"? Basically when the vehicle is off will the plug still work?
I would also like to know if it is getting its power from the 12V battery or the lithium ion battery? The second question may need to be answered by a Kia tech.
From the owners manual:
The 12 volt battery is also lithium to save weight. It is rather small but can be replenished if flat from the traction battery via a dashboard button. I had to do that already after a diagnostic Bluetooth device misbehaved overnight.
The AC inverter supplies 220V/200W or 115V/150W electric power to operate electric accessories or equipment. If you wish to use the AC inverter, open up the AC inverter cover and connect a plug to it. The AC inverter supplies electric power when engine is running.
The 12 volt battery is also lithium to save weight. It is rather small but can be replenished if flat from the traction battery via a dashboard button. I had to do that already after a diagnostic Bluetooth device misbehaved overnight.
Considering that the Niro plug in's electric range is about 26 miles, which with the regular Niro's mileage is maybe 0.7 gallons of gas or $ 2 at current prices, I don't see much advantage buying the plug in. The added cost of purchase and added weight, and added complexity just doesn't seem to be worth it.
I'm not here to pick an argument, please convince me why am I wrong?
I'm not here to pick an argument, please convince me why am I wrong?
IF you have access to a charger and do a lot of short distance trips (for example your commute to work is 10 miles or less...) it would be totally worth it.
Solar panels too! You're doing green right!
Completely depends on your use. Probably for many it doesn't make sense and thus the HEV is always going to outsell the PHEV. Depending on the state/province you live in and your personal finances though, the PHEV could cost less after tax credits than the HEV. Even more valuable for those in California is an HOV sticker.
Zero extra complexity than the HEV unless you are really going to count a charging port. Exact same mechanical and electrical systems.
Thanks, everyone. I agree.
To me the best point is if there is a gas shortage or if you live way out in the country with a single gas station which could be closed or moved, then at least have enough juice to make it to closest town with a working pump.
Someone I knew had a Ford Fusion full electric - the man claimed he could run his house for a day when the power went out by plugging everything into the Ford - hearsay only - not verified.
To me the best point is if there is a gas shortage or if you live way out in the country with a single gas station which could be closed or moved, then at least have enough juice to make it to closest town with a working pump.
Someone I knew had a Ford Fusion full electric - the man claimed he could run his house for a day when the power went out by plugging everything into the Ford - hearsay only - not verified.
See my comments about having solar panels. It was because of them that I chose the Kia Niro Plug-in Hybrid. I had considered other plug-in hybrids, but liked the Niro's crossover form-factor.
If I was just plugging into my home's electricity to charge the battery, and not using solar, I'd have to do an extensive analysis of the cost per kilowatt-hour used to charge the battery, and then what those 26 miles were costing me at pure EV.
With a fully charged battery, the combined mpg in hybrid and EV modes is now showing me 71 mpg! pretty amazing. As I understand it the regular Niro gets around 45 mpg? So it's factoring in that fully charged battery until it's fully discharged and back on gas in the mpg calculations.
I'm retired, but if I was commuting to my prior job location, I'd be on pure EV both ways 5 days a week. The key is being able to recharge from solar, which I can do now that I'm retired. I take a look at my energy production in the morning and when the solar panels are producing 4kw or more, plug in the 220v charger cord and let it charge for 2.5 hours. I couldn't do that if I was still working. But I know that a lot of corporations are starting to provide their employees with recharging stations at work locations.
If I was just plugging into my home's electricity to charge the battery, and not using solar, I'd have to do an extensive analysis of the cost per kilowatt-hour used to charge the battery, and then what those 26 miles were costing me at pure EV.
With a fully charged battery, the combined mpg in hybrid and EV modes is now showing me 71 mpg! pretty amazing. As I understand it the regular Niro gets around 45 mpg? So it's factoring in that fully charged battery until it's fully discharged and back on gas in the mpg calculations.
I'm retired, but if I was commuting to my prior job location, I'd be on pure EV both ways 5 days a week. The key is being able to recharge from solar, which I can do now that I'm retired. I take a look at my energy production in the morning and when the solar panels are producing 4kw or more, plug in the 220v charger cord and let it charge for 2.5 hours. I couldn't do that if I was still working. But I know that a lot of corporations are starting to provide their employees with recharging stations at work locations.
That's awesome! Congrats on a great green set up!
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@Mike2977 - I'm new here so I can't PM you, but would you mind telling me if you bought your Niro PHEV straight off the lot, or if you special ordered it?
I just ordered mine from a dealer in Jacksonville, but they have no idea how long it might take to get here, so I came here looking for any estimates from other people.
I just ordered mine from a dealer in Jacksonville, but they have no idea how long it might take to get here, so I came here looking for any estimates from other people.
Really depends on your commute, and a few other factors. The wife and I have the exact same distance from home to work. Total 30 miles round trip. The main difference she gets free charging at work. They don't offer it at mine. The second big reason is $ rebates or tax credits. Already told her with the tax credit she can change her W-4 for the rest of the year and not pay a dime in. On that same note her company is giving her $4K reimbursement for buying a low carbon emission vehicle.
I bought a regular Niro because I wouldn't want to fight to fit two of them in the garage to charge at the same time, or play musical cars either. But for the most part she will spend a lot less in gas that I will, and we will use mine on the weekends for events and such.
Thanks, Murk, appreciate all comments.
I wonder how many watts are needed to charge the PHEV battery in a 110 household outlet. There is a "kill-a-watt" gadget, it shows how many watts and amps are used when plugging in a toaster.
Our 4-slice toaster needs 15 amps and 1750 watts, which is pretty high, I think. I believe charging an electric car must be similar consumption or higher.
We pay 21.5 cents per kilowatt here in California, tier 1 and tier 2 combined. I figure running that toaster for one hour the cost would be 21.5 cents x 1.75 = 37 cents.
I am trying to figure it out what is the cost of charging a Niro to get 26 miles of driving range, if charging at home.
I wonder how many watts are needed to charge the PHEV battery in a 110 household outlet. There is a "kill-a-watt" gadget, it shows how many watts and amps are used when plugging in a toaster.
Our 4-slice toaster needs 15 amps and 1750 watts, which is pretty high, I think. I believe charging an electric car must be similar consumption or higher.
We pay 21.5 cents per kilowatt here in California, tier 1 and tier 2 combined. I figure running that toaster for one hour the cost would be 21.5 cents x 1.75 = 37 cents.
I am trying to figure it out what is the cost of charging a Niro to get 26 miles of driving range, if charging at home.
National average price is about 12 cents per kW. Kilowatts needed are the same for 110 and 240. The gasoline equivalent cost of electricity is then less than a buck a gallon. I'm guessing your Tier 2 price is lower at night? You should certainly schedule your charge appropriately. Regardless, you will save money as the price of gasoline in California is also higher than the national average.
Thanks, yticolev
The thing is in the summer our electric use is higher with the A/C running much more, which means we are in tier 2 most of the time.
Right now I'm still on the fence, Kia Niro, Kia Niro PHEV or Hyundai Kona and Kia Soul.
We have a Hyundai dealer 25 minutes or 15 miles from our house, but the closest Kia dealer is 2 hours away on country roads with considerable traffic. If there is an accident you can sit for quite a while before they clean up.
The thing is in the summer our electric use is higher with the A/C running much more, which means we are in tier 2 most of the time.
Right now I'm still on the fence, Kia Niro, Kia Niro PHEV or Hyundai Kona and Kia Soul.
We have a Hyundai dealer 25 minutes or 15 miles from our house, but the closest Kia dealer is 2 hours away on country roads with considerable traffic. If there is an accident you can sit for quite a while before they clean up.
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All - I'm new here, and I hope I've searched the forums correctly, my apologies if this has been addressed but I didn't not see it.
The 115V/150W outlet (referenced in above) is only present in the Plug-in "EX Premium" model. Our dealer only had "EX" so we weren't able to see the outlet. Is the outlet a standard three prong? I'd like to be able to plug in (as a passenger) a laptop. It's way under 150W - I think my charger is 30W, but it requires a three prong outlet.
I ask only because my current car has an outlet, but it doesn't have the grounding line (only two prong).
The 115V/150W outlet (referenced in above) is only present in the Plug-in "EX Premium" model. Our dealer only had "EX" so we weren't able to see the outlet. Is the outlet a standard three prong? I'd like to be able to plug in (as a passenger) a laptop. It's way under 150W - I think my charger is 30W, but it requires a three prong outlet.
I ask only because my current car has an outlet, but it doesn't have the grounding line (only two prong).
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