We've been reading other posts about the issue with the PHEV Kia Niro having a high level of "vampire" drain on the auxiliary battery, compounded by the design flaw of having the Auxiliary Battery Saver + use the traction battery to charge the auxiliary battery over and over again when it is discharged over time while it is off and parked. This is apparently really bad for the auxiliary (12 V lead-acid) battery. Our experience was that the auxiliary battery started to die and we needed to jump start the car, first only when we went on a longer trip (and therefore the traction battery was low and couldn't be used to recharge the 12V), and we were parked overnight or had the doors open for more than a few minutes. We took the car into the dealer to check the battery, they told us it was still on its 3 year warranty but it was fine, not in need of replacement. We drove off hoping it could be managed by not leaving the car doors open and the lights on. Within the next two months, it would die every time we went on a longer trip and discharged the traction battery. Then it died even when the traction battery still was fully charged, when I drove to school 1 mile, and then spent 2 minutes with the door open loading up my kid in the car seat. By the time I went to start the car, it was dead. We put a volt meter monitor on the battery and it showed a high drain with the doors open, making our battery fail within minutes even when starting out charged. And yet, when we returned to the dealer, they said the battery was still fine and not in need of replacement. Are they corrupt? Incompetent? Or is there really a deeper issue with the car that is making it die even though the battery is actually OK? FYI they did eventually agree to replace the battery. With the brand new battery, within days we already started seeing the "Auxiliary Battery Saver used" notice when starting the car in the morning. I'm worried this battery won't last either. Any suggestions? Thanks!
2019 Kia Niro PHEV auxiliary battery died, car needs to be jump started frequently, dealer claimed no problem with battery
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I have a brand new, 40 miles, 2022 kia niro phev. battery is dead. Bought the booster, but am I expected to prop the hood open every time I need to start the car. Looks like the threat of a lawsuit may be appropriate if a new battery isn't forthcoming.
Or course, that is not expected.
If it happens again, take it back to dealer and make them diagnose the problem - doubt it is a faulty battery.
Not sure where a lawsuit fits in but at least you have the Lemon Law in the US.
This 12V battery is small - perhaps the smallest car battery on the market. It's a Group T4 / 99R battery. But it's probably not undersized since this car doesn't use it to power a starter. The biggest hit to any car battery is the starter.
So I've been obsessing over watching a battery monitor right the past few days. I had a 12V 3-year old battery in the PHEV die and then the new battery I installed die over the first weekend. This is a 2019 PHEV LX.
A couple things I am going to note. My PHEV has halogen headlights. These are a big draw for that battery. Apparently (based on other posts) interior dome/hatch lights do not go off on a timer if latches are open (this is dumb for any car this modern...I know that all GMs going back 20 years or so have this battery protection feature as a default).
The 12V battery doesn't apparently get a real 14.5V+ charge while driving unless the headlights are on. This is silly. Any ICE gets a similar charge when the engine is running. Leaving the headlights on permanently will keep the battery topped up.
I plugged a shop's top-of-the-line $10,000 Snap-on diagnostic tool into this car's OBDII port the other day. I found 7 modules to pull data from. Even though they're all small, if they're all powering up at once, that's a lot of collective draw. Up until a few years ago most cars had 1 or 2 modules (typically ECM and BCM). One of these modules failing to go to sleep or any cascading error with multiple modules can create a death spiral draw on the 12V battery unexpectedly. This seems to be a common problem with Hyundai/Kia electrified car dead 12V batteries.
So I've been obsessing over watching a battery monitor right the past few days. I had a 12V 3-year old battery in the PHEV die and then the new battery I installed die over the first weekend. This is a 2019 PHEV LX.
A couple things I am going to note. My PHEV has halogen headlights. These are a big draw for that battery. Apparently (based on other posts) interior dome/hatch lights do not go off on a timer if latches are open (this is dumb for any car this modern...I know that all GMs going back 20 years or so have this battery protection feature as a default).
The 12V battery doesn't apparently get a real 14.5V+ charge while driving unless the headlights are on. This is silly. Any ICE gets a similar charge when the engine is running. Leaving the headlights on permanently will keep the battery topped up.
I plugged a shop's top-of-the-line $10,000 Snap-on diagnostic tool into this car's OBDII port the other day. I found 7 modules to pull data from. Even though they're all small, if they're all powering up at once, that's a lot of collective draw. Up until a few years ago most cars had 1 or 2 modules (typically ECM and BCM). One of these modules failing to go to sleep or any cascading error with multiple modules can create a death spiral draw on the 12V battery unexpectedly. This seems to be a common problem with Hyundai/Kia electrified car dead 12V batteries.
Yes, you are correct. I am not sure what percentage of Kia/Hyundai PHEV's actually have a problem but based on threads in this forum, it is more than should be acceptable.
I still maintain that Kia/Hyundai should put the same 12V lithium battery that is found in the HEV - with the reset switch on the dash - to "boost" should it lose charge. So what if it costs $500 more, I think these people experiencing problems would gladly pay that extra cost.
I still maintain that Kia/Hyundai should put the same 12V lithium battery that is found in the HEV - with the reset switch on the dash - to "boost" should it lose charge. So what if it costs $500 more, I think these people experiencing problems would gladly pay that extra cost.
Seems reasonable. But no doubt Kia/Hyundai/Tesla et al believe sales would take a hit with an extra cost that is not a luxury option in a trim level. Got to say, zero issues with the HEV 12 volt battery. But once the 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty is up and if it dies, it is going to be costly to replace. Not simple.
My Impression is KIA/Hyundai is that they probably won't go back and fix anything for existing cars. Frankly I'm surprised that any manufacturer besides the Big 3 and Tesla would sell anything in the US. We may be a big market, but with the proliferation of global design standards growing closer together that make the US/Canada an outlier and with crash testing/import standards that are ridiculous compared to the potential sales volume of any vehicle not designed solely for the NA market, I'm shocked that cars like the Niro even get sold here.
I have to make sweeping generalizations to get to this point. I've been to South Korea once and done a lot of reading about the place (I have a friend who lives/works/married there and my grandfather fought in WWII and the Korean War). It seems like the ethos there for manufacturing straddles East and West - make things affordably and with quality, but get them out the door. I spent a lot of time researching which electrified car I would buy first. Originally I was leaning EV but cost of high range vehicles and complexity/cost of a conversion made it impractical. So I settled on PHEVs and the Niro jumped out in terms of range and cost. Now, after owning the car, it makes sense. In many ways it's that basic car pushed out the door once the PHEV system was nailed down - no effort to make the AC into a two/way Heat Pump or get that battery charging cycle to a good place, and like many have noted, no battery run-down protection when things get left on/open. No AWD option (don't get me started on this - I live in a place where it's marginally necessary and I don't even have AWD on the daily drivers, but the fact that most Americans living anywhere where more than 1" of snow falls per year think they need AWD means the market for 2WD cars is rapidly shrinking...being a car guy I cannot tell you how many people I have told, once they have said they need AWD, that they just need a good set of winter tires and some driving lessons). Just a few examples. And from a person that works on cars - clearly put together with a design and factory line process that prizes simplicity over ingenuity. Kia/Hyundai's are easy to work on.
Jason Torchinsky, formerly of Jalopnik, sealed the deal for me - by dubbing the Niro a wagon, not a CUV. I will do my best to go to my grave never owing a CUV/SUV. That was a huge selling point for me: Niro is a Wagon!
I have to make sweeping generalizations to get to this point. I've been to South Korea once and done a lot of reading about the place (I have a friend who lives/works/married there and my grandfather fought in WWII and the Korean War). It seems like the ethos there for manufacturing straddles East and West - make things affordably and with quality, but get them out the door. I spent a lot of time researching which electrified car I would buy first. Originally I was leaning EV but cost of high range vehicles and complexity/cost of a conversion made it impractical. So I settled on PHEVs and the Niro jumped out in terms of range and cost. Now, after owning the car, it makes sense. In many ways it's that basic car pushed out the door once the PHEV system was nailed down - no effort to make the AC into a two/way Heat Pump or get that battery charging cycle to a good place, and like many have noted, no battery run-down protection when things get left on/open. No AWD option (don't get me started on this - I live in a place where it's marginally necessary and I don't even have AWD on the daily drivers, but the fact that most Americans living anywhere where more than 1" of snow falls per year think they need AWD means the market for 2WD cars is rapidly shrinking...being a car guy I cannot tell you how many people I have told, once they have said they need AWD, that they just need a good set of winter tires and some driving lessons). Just a few examples. And from a person that works on cars - clearly put together with a design and factory line process that prizes simplicity over ingenuity. Kia/Hyundai's are easy to work on.
Jason Torchinsky, formerly of Jalopnik, sealed the deal for me - by dubbing the Niro a wagon, not a CUV. I will do my best to go to my grave never owing a CUV/SUV. That was a huge selling point for me: Niro is a Wagon!
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The dealer seems pretty friendly, at least the sales people. I just wonder if they'll even have these batteries in stock since getting the car was such a problem. Lemon law, thanks.
They don't tend to keep them in stock and again, it is highly unlikely the battery is the actual problem.
Give the service dept a chance to diagnose - assuming that you have to boost again.
I traded an Outback (which is a lifted wagon) for my Niro. I completely agree with the small wagon definition.
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T
Took my car in this morning. Sales manager convinced the Service manager to take the car in, after I was told it would be April 5 to get an appointment. Technician told me there is a "vampire" drawdown on the 12 volt portion of the battery. Gave me a free rental car and will call when it's taken care of. Great dealership service when you go directly to management.
Glad they are coming through for you. Others have not had the same experience with management/free rental car etc.
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April 1, and the dealer still has the car. Four or five days to track down an energy draw???? Or is it something big, like the auto mode doesn't work for crap?
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April 6, and the dealer still has the phev. They have now had kia send a corporate technician to see if he can track down the phantom discharge. The dealership has been unable to. Could this be the straw that breaks the camel's back and solves Kia's 12 volt problem???? To be continued.
Our 2018 Kia Niro PHEV will be four years old this July. The vehicle still has the original lead acid battery and we haven't had any issues yet (only 12,000 miles). This includes getting the dashboard auxiliary battery charged notification multiple times each month over the years. I recently purchased a volt meter to monitor the battery because I don't want to be caught unaware of a pending failure since the battery is almost four years old. I haven't used the volt meter yet. We garage the Niro and live in a temperate coastal climate in western Washington State. I'm extremely careful to make certain the rear hatch and car doors are always shut tight and have never left an inside light on by mistake.
Based on other owners'comments regarding the troubles they've had with their lead acid battery, we've been extremely fortunate. I came across the following comment recently regarding Kia Niro vehicles : "Always ensure that all doors and tailgate are closed fully, interior lights are switched off and the car is locked with the remote transmitter. This will not only ensure the vehicle security but also minimize drain on the battery". Since we garage our Niro we do not lock the car with the remote transmitter. How does locking the car minimize drain on the lead acid battery and does this really make any difference?
Based on other owners'comments regarding the troubles they've had with their lead acid battery, we've been extremely fortunate. I came across the following comment recently regarding Kia Niro vehicles : "Always ensure that all doors and tailgate are closed fully, interior lights are switched off and the car is locked with the remote transmitter. This will not only ensure the vehicle security but also minimize drain on the battery". Since we garage our Niro we do not lock the car with the remote transmitter. How does locking the car minimize drain on the lead acid battery and does this really make any difference?
Doesn't.
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Everything I could think of was off both days my battery crapped out. There is a mechanics notice from Kia that tells them to replace the hatch lid locks, since they have been shown to be a problem in the past.
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If that's the rear hatch, you can check it by using a screwdriver to similar tool to close the latch when the hatch is open. (You need to close the latch completely.) Then look at the light to see if it i out. I use this trick when I want the light off when the hatch is open. Of course, I must re-open the latch by pressing the hatch open button before closing the hatch.
I also want to add a switch to the light so I can keep it off except when I want it on. Tried to pry the light our but afraid I'll break it. I hope I can get a mechanic to advise on prying the light on my next trip to the dealer.
One thing I've heard but can't confirm is to make sure the fob is not in range of the car while it's parked. The Niro senses when the fob come close and starts turning things on. On my '18 PHEV the car will unfold the mirrors when you approach and which means at the very least the alarm module and the mirror controller are running. I suspect the alarm controller is always polling for the fob and if it detects it, starts waking up other systems. It's possible that this can keep things running all the time and run down the battery.
Now, in my case I've never had an issue. When the car is parked in my garage it's probably only 10 feet from where I keep the fob. I occasionally get the Battery Saver message, but I've never had a dead battery. I get the Saver warning probably just a frequently when the car is nor parked near the fob so who can say if it's actually an issue.
I think the real issue is simply the fact that the 12V battery is undersized. It's barely capable of supporting normal usage and if there are any extra loads it's not up to the task. Unfortunately there's not enough room in the battery compartment for a larger unit so I'm not sure there is a real solution.
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