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WOW a 6 volt charger. And Sears. You got 2 shots to make some money selling that thing on EBAY as an antique charger from a soon to be totally done store LOL.
2019 Niro PHEV battery parastic draw mystery? DIY post
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Not for sale, ever, haha!
Before there were 6V batteries to crank engines, there were no batteries to crank the engine. Read about how Byron Carter (an early automotive pioneer) died trying to start a stranded motorist in the early 1900s. His death lead to the creation of the automatic self-starter by one of his friends (Henry Leland, one of Cadillac's founders), who put Charles Kettering's starter design into his cars. Which lead to poorly running engines and Kettering's Dayton Engineering Laboratories (today's ACDELCO) experimenting with improving combustion by mixing everything under the sun into gasoline (eventually settling on lead). Early automotive history is interesting because it was the wild west.
Before I take off for work, here's the weekend data dump and some quick thoughts.
Sometimes when you plug in the car it gets real charged at over 14.6V for a period, then drops to a float (13.1) charge. Sometimes it goes right to float charge. No idea what the trigger is and how the car decides. It seems like the length of the full charge may be depending on the amount of depletion of the traction battery.
There was one blip in the middle of the night that mimics a door opening, so unless someone did open the door and rummage through it (doubtful this time but, despite this being rural, I do have a rotating cast of junkies living within a 1/4 mile of me and it has happened!).
I'm curious if opening the app does anything - haven't tried that yet. Kia gave us the remainder of the three years for UVO even though it was an auction car (thanks Kia!). There have been Hyundai Ioniq problems related to the app, but they resulted from the charge port door being opened by the app and a module staying awake afterwards (I'm not aware if Kia has that option - our car doesn't, we can only manually push-click the port door open). I'm also wondering if the car phone home on the 4G modem at random times to allow Kia to spy on us.
Sometimes when you plug in the car it gets real charged at over 14.6V for a period, then drops to a float (13.1) charge. Sometimes it goes right to float charge. No idea what the trigger is and how the car decides. It seems like the length of the full charge may be depending on the amount of depletion of the traction battery.
There was one blip in the middle of the night that mimics a door opening, so unless someone did open the door and rummage through it (doubtful this time but, despite this being rural, I do have a rotating cast of junkies living within a 1/4 mile of me and it has happened!).
I'm curious if opening the app does anything - haven't tried that yet. Kia gave us the remainder of the three years for UVO even though it was an auction car (thanks Kia!). There have been Hyundai Ioniq problems related to the app, but they resulted from the charge port door being opened by the app and a module staying awake afterwards (I'm not aware if Kia has that option - our car doesn't, we can only manually push-click the port door open). I'm also wondering if the car phone home on the 4G modem at random times to allow Kia to spy on us.
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I think I have that same charger, although I think mine's even older!
Here's something interesting. There's a product to stop the battery from draining. Might be worth it so that anyone having dead battery problems doesn't get stranded until (if in my case) there's some kind of fix.
12 Volt Low Voltage Cutoff Switch
12 Volt Low Voltage Cutoff Switch
Very interesting concept.
I do have 2 concerns:
#1 don't like the idea of splicing into positive cable
#2 threshold voltage to trip is 11.5V - will that be enough to "start" the vehicle?
Price is reasonable. I think you should try it and report back on this thread.
I'm not so concerned with #1. It will be acting as a switch and it's rated for 50A.
On #2 I found another product with a selectable voltage, but it's limited to 10A. I already know that the alarm draws more than that cause it popped a fuse in the multimeter when it went off. 11.5V is about 20% SOC. My issue causes the battery to drop straight to completely dead at less than 6.0V. I'd be happy with a hard cut off at 11.5V if it saves the battery deep discharges.
I could test if 11.5V is enough to start the car with one of my dead batteries. My battery is brand new and I've already seen it drawn down as low at 12.2V for a start. It'd be nice to know if it's enough juice to open up the hatch too.
I'm heading out of the country for a few weeks soon. The Kia will be sitting in the driveway with the battery disconnected. So there won't be much to report until I get back.
Yes, 11.5V should be fine but I suggest you let your new battery get down to that point and then see if it will "start".
I think AH rating will affect "starting" amp available.
The car sat for nearly three weeks in the driveway with the negative side switched off. We're back to our normal routine. The car goes to work, I have my wife kill the battery there, and when it's home it stays connected and I monitor it. There have been a few apparent module wake ups where a little power gets drained off, but none have persisted long enough to kill the battery. I'm in the pattern of hoping to catch it in the act, but so far it appears to have been an intermittent issue. It happened at the end of an especially wet and windy period in the winter, so moisture in a connector is certainly a possible culprit that may be hard to reproduce. As noted in this thread, I may make some modifications and just let things go from there. Right now I have other vehicle issues - a GMC pickup that has a mystery ABS/Traction Control problem, an old 80s Toyota wagon that needs a whole bunch of work and a boatload of house construction projects now that we're out of the nearly half-a-year Maine winter (I'm about half way through the house after 6 years - a fixer-upper that needed a gut renovation). So it may be a while before I give the Niro any focus.
Just a brief update.
At some point I found that battery was no longer seeing mystery discharges. I have two theories.
1. The Kia UVO/Connect 3-year subscription ran out in early April. My wife used it to remote start the car frequently until the subscription ran out. Once that subscription had run out, she deleted the app and coincidentally, the car has never again seen a mystery parasitic draw. So it's possible that app was somehow keeping a module awake. The battery monitor still indicates a brief wake up every night in the middle of the night (Kia phone home), but it does not have much of an effect on the state of charge.
2. The water in a connector recall issue - which did not technically affect my car based on manufacture date. We had a wet spring and it could have kept a body module alive. Soon after we hit drought conditions and it has been very dry.
Some other news is that the cylinder 3 misfire error code has stayed away for months. So the car has been running well. And we have not put any gas in it for more than 5 months, a new record.
On a side note, I can't be the only person with zero sympathy for people that complain about gas prices. My feeling is that if you chose a giant unnecessary vehicle when gas prices were low, and so much so that most manufacturers stopped caring about selling fuel-efficient vehicles in the US, then you forfeit your right to complain about gas prices (or have me care) when they get high.
At some point I found that battery was no longer seeing mystery discharges. I have two theories.
1. The Kia UVO/Connect 3-year subscription ran out in early April. My wife used it to remote start the car frequently until the subscription ran out. Once that subscription had run out, she deleted the app and coincidentally, the car has never again seen a mystery parasitic draw. So it's possible that app was somehow keeping a module awake. The battery monitor still indicates a brief wake up every night in the middle of the night (Kia phone home), but it does not have much of an effect on the state of charge.
2. The water in a connector recall issue - which did not technically affect my car based on manufacture date. We had a wet spring and it could have kept a body module alive. Soon after we hit drought conditions and it has been very dry.
Some other news is that the cylinder 3 misfire error code has stayed away for months. So the car has been running well. And we have not put any gas in it for more than 5 months, a new record.
On a side note, I can't be the only person with zero sympathy for people that complain about gas prices. My feeling is that if you chose a giant unnecessary vehicle when gas prices were low, and so much so that most manufacturers stopped caring about selling fuel-efficient vehicles in the US, then you forfeit your right to complain about gas prices (or have me care) when they get high.
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Hi,
Been scowering the internet and came across your discussion from last year. I habe a 2019 NIRO PHEV, and just dealt with a similar issue and brought it to the dealer here in Westbrook, Maine. ( I see you're also from Maine as well. ) They ran some tests and ultimately said it just needed a new battery but i am convinced there is a vampyric discharge somewhere.
Did you ever resolve this? Was it the UVO app? Im actually nearing the end of my trial as well.
Also, by chance do you know of anywhere you can get a replacement battery besides the dealer?
Been scowering the internet and came across your discussion from last year. I habe a 2019 NIRO PHEV, and just dealt with a similar issue and brought it to the dealer here in Westbrook, Maine. ( I see you're also from Maine as well. ) They ran some tests and ultimately said it just needed a new battery but i am convinced there is a vampyric discharge somewhere.
Did you ever resolve this? Was it the UVO app? Im actually nearing the end of my trial as well.
Also, by chance do you know of anywhere you can get a replacement battery besides the dealer?
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2 Posts
Hi,
Been scowering the internet and came across your discussion from last year. I habe a 2019 NIRO PHEV, and just dealt with a similar issue and brought it to the dealer here in Westbrook, Maine. ( I see you're also from Maine as well. ) They ran some tests and ultimately said it just needed a new battery but i am convinced there is a vampyric discharge somewhere.
Did you ever resolve this? Was it the UVO app? Im actually nearing the end of my trial as well.
Also, by chance do you know of anywhere you can get a replacement battery besides the dealer?
Been scowering the internet and came across your discussion from last year. I habe a 2019 NIRO PHEV, and just dealt with a similar issue and brought it to the dealer here in Westbrook, Maine. ( I see you're also from Maine as well. ) They ran some tests and ultimately said it just needed a new battery but i am convinced there is a vampyric discharge somewhere.
Did you ever resolve this? Was it the UVO app? Im actually nearing the end of my trial as well.
Also, by chance do you know of anywhere you can get a replacement battery besides the dealer?
I got it at AutoZone, group 99R. Since they like to go by car make and model and because nothing will come up for Kia Niro Phev if you give them the Kia Niro EV which, for some reason they have categorized as a Kia "truck" (in case they can't find it under the Kia cars list), it uses the same 12 volt battery. The way this car charges up and draws down plus the size of that battery guarantees that it's a 3-year battery at best. Because I bought a voltage tracker and could see when modules would turn on while the car was sitting unused, I'm certain that the Kia UVO app woke up a module every night and then sometimes that module did not go to rest. Since the 3-year free UVO expired, which Kia nicely allowed me to use up even though it was an auction car, we let it lapse. We didn't want to pay the fee just to get remote start. This is Maine I mean we can handle walking out to the car and starting it up!
I'm pretty sure that UVO triggers an overnight cellular signal, which for some reason would not powers down the relevant module each time after it phoned home. I have no idea what network it used but if it's world standard GSM coverage, where I live is very spotty up north, so it's possible that there is a network issue with weak cell signals leaving the module alive. Unfortunately that also cascaded into the auxiliary battery saver not kicking on to keep the 12V battery topped up.
There's also a TSB out there which I believe affects some 2019's with a parasitic draw from a door module. If your production date falls in that class they may have just replaced your battery and not told you about the TSB. They would have replaced a switch or something like that under warranty I believe. Been a while since I looked at that document.
I'm just planning on not using UVO ever again. And replacing the battery every 3 years. And using the kill switch I installed for long periods of the car sitting.
That's far better than my pre-uvo madness where I was going to try to hunt down that module and neuter the cell phone part of it. I also had ideas of using basically an automated battery kill switch if the voltage dropped too low.
I'm pretty sure that UVO triggers an overnight cellular signal, which for some reason would not powers down the relevant module each time after it phoned home. I have no idea what network it used but if it's world standard GSM coverage, where I live is very spotty up north, so it's possible that there is a network issue with weak cell signals leaving the module alive. Unfortunately that also cascaded into the auxiliary battery saver not kicking on to keep the 12V battery topped up.
There's also a TSB out there which I believe affects some 2019's with a parasitic draw from a door module. If your production date falls in that class they may have just replaced your battery and not told you about the TSB. They would have replaced a switch or something like that under warranty I believe. Been a while since I looked at that document.
I'm just planning on not using UVO ever again. And replacing the battery every 3 years. And using the kill switch I installed for long periods of the car sitting.
That's far better than my pre-uvo madness where I was going to try to hunt down that module and neuter the cell phone part of it. I also had ideas of using basically an automated battery kill switch if the voltage dropped too low.
2019 White PHEV EX Prem, Mich Premier AS tires, LED BU lights, window visors 2022 Subaru OB Touring
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639 Posts
@Tetrphet: There are multiple strings on this topic, while rare, there appear to be several suitable aftermarket batteries.
See 2019 Kia Niro PHEV auxiliary battery died, car needs to... See posts 87 & 186
Is yours no longer covered by the warranty or do you just want a "better" battery?
See 2019 Kia Niro PHEV auxiliary battery died, car needs to... See posts 87 & 186
Is yours no longer covered by the warranty or do you just want a "better" battery?
Thanks for all the posts, and insights. I just had this happen again to my Kia Niro PHEV, about the 4th time since 2018.
The battery was at about 7V - the battery really should have Low Voltage Disconnect at about 10V, and that would protect the battery.
So 20minutes of charge - with the charger on and battery voltage about 12V (4A charge), and it could start up again.
Seems like in this case, my wife cleaned the vehicle, so in and out with the doors open for some period. Really should have coped with this.
Possible fix I guess is to turn on the vehicle, and then have the doors open so at least the +12V Aux Battery is being maintained by the larger battery.
I did have a interesting query/feeback form from from Kia ~sometime in 2019, which seemed related to this - so was really hoping it had been upgraded (via the cell connection) and fixed. The dealer that we bought from, JimBonekia in Santa Rosa, California didn't know anything about it when we took it for a service 6 months ago.
So it really makes the Kia Niro PHEV unreliable that this condition can be precipitated. A friend asked if I would recommend the Kia Niro PHEV as an EV, and I had to say, well it occasionally has this problem.
The battery was at about 7V - the battery really should have Low Voltage Disconnect at about 10V, and that would protect the battery.
So 20minutes of charge - with the charger on and battery voltage about 12V (4A charge), and it could start up again.
Seems like in this case, my wife cleaned the vehicle, so in and out with the doors open for some period. Really should have coped with this.
Possible fix I guess is to turn on the vehicle, and then have the doors open so at least the +12V Aux Battery is being maintained by the larger battery.
I did have a interesting query/feeback form from from Kia ~sometime in 2019, which seemed related to this - so was really hoping it had been upgraded (via the cell connection) and fixed. The dealer that we bought from, JimBonekia in Santa Rosa, California didn't know anything about it when we took it for a service 6 months ago.
So it really makes the Kia Niro PHEV unreliable that this condition can be precipitated. A friend asked if I would recommend the Kia Niro PHEV as an EV, and I had to say, well it occasionally has this problem.
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