Kia Niro Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
One year purchase anniversary coming up next month. Yesterday I traveled 32miles in EV mode. Same result as 11 months ago. No sign of battery degradation.

We have purchased one tank of gas since returning last August from a 3200 mile trip ( Utah, Kentucky, Utah) . We used some ICE heat in the winter.

9000+ total miles. No problems at all. Upgraded the stock base wheels. Changed oil after trip. That's it.

Love this car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,013 Posts
With such a large amount of capacity in reserve, 15-20%, you are not going to see any battery degradation before that amount has been lost. Talk to us again in ten years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
With such a large amount of capacity in reserve, 15-20%, you are not going to see any battery degradation before that amount has been lost. Talk to us again in ten years.
are you saying the hidden reserve will shrink to zero before the ev range will start to shrink ?

Is that theory just speculation or do you have special knowledge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,013 Posts
That's how the engineers set it up. No one has yet been able to observe any degradation on Ioniqs or Niros yet. 2016 was the first model year (HEV) and some have well over 100,000 miles. Obviously, it is not possible to have zero degradation. It will be easier to spot on the PHEV eventually, but the BMS is designed for very long battery life (which the reserve capacity helps tremendously - you can't fill the battery to 100% which degrades lithium batteries faster). If you think about warranty issues, obviously it is better for KIA to not have consumer observable degradation before 100,000 miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
That's how the engineers set it up. No one has yet been able to observe any degradation on Ioniqs or Niros yet. 2016 was the first model year (HEV) and some have well over 100,000 miles. Obviously, it is not possible to have zero degradation. It will be easier to spot on the PHEV eventually, but the BMS is designed for very long battery life (which the reserve capacity helps tremendously - you can't fill the battery to 100% which degrades lithium batteries faster). If you think about warranty issues, obviously it is better for KIA to not have consumer observable degradation before 100,000 miles.
It is promising that HEVs haven't seen any problems even with 100k miles. However, I don't know how one can accurately measure EV range in an HEV.

Yes, 9k miles and one year is certainly not proof but if I could see degradation, then I would be disappointed. Most Tesla graphs I have seen show measurable (a few %) degradation in the first year or two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Thank you for sharing your experience. Our Niro PHEV is brand new. We have been averaging right over 30 miles per charge since buying it in early May. Nice to hear that it will retain that capacity.

I also am encouraged about hearing you have had no problems.

This is the first non Toyota I have owned since the 1985. I traded in a 2008 Toyota Prius. I struggled with not buying the enhanced warranty at the vehicle closing with the Finance people. I have never owned a Kia but the Niro had outstanding reliability ratings. In the end I decided to trust my judgement on purchasing this vehicle and keep the money for the 3rd party extended warranty in my pocket.

Experiences like yours make me feel much better about just pocketing this money. I have never bought an extended warranty in my life and didn't want to start then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
If it adds any confidence about battery capacity diminishing, our 12 year old Toyota Prius with 150,000 miles we traded in was still getting over 50 mpg. The Toyota battery monitor for the Prius showed the battery charging and discharging same as when new.

We traded it in because of its age. We have another vehicle that is going on 20 years old with over 150,000 miles on it also. With two cars this age and a family that needs transportation we had to do something to upgrade our vehicles to make sure we had at least one vehicle that was newer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,013 Posts
It may not be happening at the same rate as a Tesla though. Tesla allows full charging and discharging of the battery, which for owners that do that will cause more degradation than a BMS that is always keeping the battery between 20 and 80% (approximately) like the Niro.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
You make some great points on battery life.

I get the impression that this battery technology while continuing to grow is also maturing. Engineers that develop battery management programs as well as this technology have real world data to base their programs and technology decisions on. The Prius and their battery packs have been around for decades now and have experienced very few problems. Also thankfully this technology is getting cheaper. A person can now buy a brand new replacement hybrid battery for a Prius from the Dealer for under $2000 .
In the 150,000 miles of driving in the years we owned our Prius we experience 0 battery, battery management or hybrid issues. I think this is a testament to the current state of Hybrid technology rather than anything special we did as owners.

So far my impressions of the Niro are that it is even more refined than a Prius. Certainly more comfortable and fun to drive. I couldn't be more impressed with this Niro.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
463 Posts
In the 150,000 miles of driving in the years we owned our Prius we experience 0 battery, battery management or hybrid issues. I think this is a testament to the current state of Hybrid technology rather than anything special we did as owners.

So far my impressions of the Niro are that it is even more refined than a Prius. Certainly more comfortable and fun to drive. I couldn't be more impressed with this Niro.

The saying of rising water raises all ships is quite true. We can be very thankful to Toyota for the work they did with the Prius in it opened up not only the market demand for this type of vehicle for customers to purchase but as well the engineering possibilities to more automakers to add in their own designs and improvements.


This second point is as well a big point in Kia being a newer company to the hybrid market, could start off with a more of a clean slate and start the design from the beginning, where Toyota has more or less a locked in following design with the Prius where they can't really deviate too far from the past without risking some kickback from loyal customers. The hybrid market isn't large enough to have 4 or 5 model styles as the cost to make a car is very much governed by volume delivered. So a Prius seems to be rather stuck on it's unique shape. The single stick drive/reverse/park on the dash. The interior has a certain feel along with the way it seems to drive.


By comparison, the Niro has no prior history that is must follow, so it seems like it was designed to fit into a market slot that nobody else was in. I have seen many hybrid cars, but not much in the line of a compact suv/crossover.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
499 Posts
One year purchase anniversary coming up next month. Yesterday I traveled 32miles in EV mode..
So, this means that you travel 7 more EV miles on the 1.56 kWh battery after using all of the 26 miles the 8.9 kWh battery had stocked. The ~ 18-20% left on the hybrid battery when full gives a plus to make more EV drive.!



That is awsome! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
So, this means that you travel 7 more EV miles on the 1.56 kWh battery after using all of the 26 miles the 8.9 kWh battery had stocked. The ~ 18-20% left on the hybrid battery when full gives a plus to make more EV drive.!



That is awsome! :)
typically it takes me ~8 kwhrs to fully recharge after ev range goes to zero and ICE turns on (others have reported 8.3-8.5). This implies the car retains about about ~0.9 kwhrs for HEV functions

The EPA spec says 26 miles ev range and 32kwhrs/100 miles. This implies 8.3 kwhrs of the 8.9 total is available for EV driving leaving only 0.6 kwhrs for HEV functions.

The point, in case you missed it, is I get the same EV range now as I did 11 mo ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,013 Posts
So, this means that you travel 7 more EV miles on the 1.56 kWh battery after using all of the 26 miles the 8.9 kWh battery had stocked. The ~ 18-20% left on the hybrid battery when full gives a plus to make more EV drive.!

That is awsome! :)
There only one 8.9 kWh battery on the PHEV. No 1.56 battery. You can get far more, or far less EV miles than the EPA or manufacturer rating depending on how fast you drive and under what conditions. Charles is able to get 32 miles under presumably ideal conditions and a gentle foot at normal speeds - which is excellent!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
499 Posts
There only one 8.9 kWh battery on the PHEV. No 1.56 battery. You can get far more, or far less EV miles than the EPA or manufacturer rating depending on how fast you drive and under what conditions. Charles is able to get 32 miles under presumably ideal conditions and a gentle foot at normal speeds - which is excellent!
Sooo , you are telling us that there is only ONE 8.9kWh battery in the car ? right!
sooo, can you explain me why there is one physical battery under the back seat and one under the cargo floor!?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
534 Posts
Sooo , you are telling us that there is only ONE 8.9kWh battery in the car ? right!
sooo, can you explain me why there is one physical battery under the back seat and one under the cargo floor!?
Yes, there are two batteries. But one is the standard 12 volt wet cell battery that runs the lights, radio, etc. The other battery is the high voltage traction motor battery, which is 8.9 kWh. The 12 volt battery has no ability to move the car via the electric motor. The HV battery can provide a charge to the 12 volt battery if it gets low, but it doesn't work the other way around. The 12 volt battery wouldn't provide enough current to even move the car in a driveway, let alone move at normal driving speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
50 vs 70mph required kw

The prev has a screen showing mpg and/or kw used over 2 min time blocks.

Today I observed

Steady 70mph , ~15kw
Steady 50mph, ~8kw

Wind resistance ratio 70^2/50^2 = ~2

Energy ratio 15/8 = ~1.9

Pretty close

Implications

50mph, 8kw, 8kwhr battery, implies range of 50miles
70mph, 15kw , 8kwhr battery, implies range of 37miles

Some day I'll find a road where I can drive a steady 40mph and see how far I can get.

FWIW
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
534 Posts
Don't forget that the PHEV holds about 20% battery capacity in reserve. That's where mine will switch from electric mode to hybrid mode. Assuming there isn't some padding at the upper end that they hide from the battery display, that's only 7.12 kWh usable. My guess (and it's only a guess) is there's a little headroom as well, so the usable capacity might be just under 7 kWh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,013 Posts
Sooo , you are telling us that there is only ONE 8.9kWh battery in the car ? right!
sooo, can you explain me why there is one physical battery under the back seat and one under the cargo floor!?
Those two batteries are functionally one battery - integrated you might say - and thus rated as one battery with 8.9 kWh capacity, just as the specifications read.

By the way, the operating voltage on the PHEV is 360 versus 240 on the HEV. That wouldn't be possible without the batteries working as one functional battery.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
499 Posts
Those two batteries are functionally one battery - integrated you might say - and thus rated as one battery with 8.9 kWh capacity, just as the specifications read.

By the way, the operating voltage on the PHEV is 360 versus 240 on the HEV. That wouldn't be possible without the batteries working as one functional battery.
Sooo, if those 2 "physical" battery's make's a 100% 8.9kWh, how much is on each one ? Is it, exemple: 8.9 minus 1.56=?? or it's only the 120v difference between PHEV and HEV? Do you know how that turns out!? :confused:...
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top