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Discussion Starter #41
Total times the front seat has been unbolted to date; 8


The box is mounted in the car!!!


It is a VERY tight fit. So tight that it would be impossible to remove the box or sub without taking the seat out. So I decided to hook the sub up to my old 4 channel amp, and turn the gain up a little more. Now it is putting out 100 watts. So only 1/3 of the power that it will get when the new amp is installed. Cabin gain helped a lot more than what I thought it would do. I played Decaf on it and the 26 hz drop was a lot louder than anticipated. My sun glasses in the overhead compartment were rattling, and even my vision was slightly blurred.


Once I get everything installed, I’ll probably set the low pass filter to around 50 hz. This will help to pull down the peak I heard at about 65 hz thanks to the amplifier’s 24 dB/octave cross over slope. It should also blend well with the stock speakers too. The bass knob is going to be mounted to the fuse box cover. That is why I purchased a new one. So the car can be returned 100% back to stock and no one would be able to tell there was a subwoofer in the car.


So my local Wally World is out of stock on the amp. So until they get more in, I need to decide where to splice in the front speaker wires that will give the amp the source signal. For this there are 2 options. Either;

A. Pull the door panels and solder wires directly to the speaker terminals, then run the wire through the factory accordion looms in the door jams(what a pain it is to do that). Or.....

B. Find a wiring schematic for the back of the factory radio. Then tie in to the front speaker outputs right there. This would more than likely be the easiest option, IF I can get ahold of a wiring diagram as well as instructions on how to remove the factory radio.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
My local store was still out of stock on the amp so I went online and ordered one. It is supposed to come in on Friday.
 

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@91cavgt, I used http://www.kniro.net/audio-1627.html and the website as a guide to setting up my own amp and sub install. The site provides repair procedures in removing the Audio Unit providing pictures of the clips and such. When decent warm weather permits is when I will run the audio signal to behind factory head unit hopefully tomorrow... Why did you decide on splicing the front door speakers? Do you plan to use a line out converter with dsp?
 

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You could probably pop off the door panel in like 5 minutes and take a look at the speaker wire come back inside and look for those color wires under the kick panel tap in there. Id do the passenger side though drivers has a lot of wires but you could still find them.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Thanks for the link!


I’m still trying to decide what route to take as to the source signal. The amp has high level inputs so I’m going to try that first.


The amp came in on Saturday. Things are really busy this week, but there was enough time today to look over everything closely and get a little work done.

The amp fits really well under the passenger seat and under the rear seat vent! Got the ground wire ran and connected. Found a good ground on the passenger side of the hybrid battery. The 8 gauge wire tucked under the trim panels really nicely.

The rest of this week is going to be busy so I doubt there will be much more progress for a few days.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Got the amp mostly wired up today. The power is connected to the 12v+ connection beside the hybrid battery. An in-line 40 amp fuse was used and 8 gauge wire was ran for the power and ground. A Micro2 fuse tap was used so I could get a switched power connection from the fuse box and use it as a remote turn on for the amp.


The amp is not mounted yet so I can have easy access to the amplifier controls. After the sub is setup the way I want it, the amp will be mounted.

I’m currently using a male RCA to male headphone plug for testing purposes. I’m very happy with the overall sound. It’s not competition level loud, but that is not what I was wanting so it’s all good.


I’m busy for the rest of this week so I’m not exactly sure when I’ll be able to work on it next.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
More progress!


Today I took off the back right door panel. Then took the speaker out. I was very surprised at the stock speakers. The surround on the speaker is rubber, not foam! The motor structure also is beefy compared to typical factory speakers. Also, there is not a whizzer cone on it. It truly is a midrange driver.

So I soldered a wire directly on to the speaker. So no factory wires were cut at all. I ran the speaker wire through the rubber accordion grommet and along factory wires down to under the seat where it is soldered to the high level input plug on the amp.

The wires still need to be hidden and tucked away, but everything is now working as intended.



First impressions;


Wow!!! This puts out a LOT more than expected!!! It can easily vibrate the rear view mirror enough that you can’t tell what is behind you. The crossover is set to about 60 hz right now and I may lower that down a touch to 50 or 55 hz. Output down to 40 hz is VERY impressive. It starts to roll off from there to 30 hz where it seems to take a nosedive below 30. With all 4 windows down and driving at 60 mph the bass is no longer drowned out by wind and road noise.


Hopefully sometime early next week I can work on making things pretty, and final tweaking. After that I’ll take it to my local Kia dealer and will video salesman’s responses to the setup!
 

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:eek: I have NEVER heard Pioneer referred to as a cheap amp/speaker. They have been and forever and have always had a great reputation with audiophiles.

Yes, I have looked at a VERY large number of powered shallow mount sub boxes. Previous in this thread myself and another member discussed them. In short, this is our conclusion;

1. The subwoofers used are typically of inferior quality.

2. The built in amplifiers are of poor quality and low wattage despite manufacturers claims.

3. The enclosure material is typically of poor quality.

4. They cost as much as I have in this entire setup.


So in short, if you can build and install an amplifier and subwoofer box then the prebuilt setups just aren’t worth a hill of beans.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
/forum/images/KiaNiroForum/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png I have NEVER heard Pioneer referred to as a cheap amp/speaker. They have been and forever and have always had a great reputation with audiophiles.

Yes, I have looked at a VERY large number of powered shallow mount sub boxes. Previous in this thread myself and another member discussed them. In short, this is our conclusion;

1. The subwoofers used are typically of inferior quality.

2. The built in amplifiers are of poor quality and low wattage despite manufacturers claims.

3. The enclosure material is typically of poor quality.

4. They cost as much as I have in this entire setup.


So in short, if you can build and install an amplifier and subwoofer box then the prebuilt setups just aren’t worth a hill of beans.

The most commonly found found Pioneer equipment is most definitely cheap and not audiophile grade. Keep in mind that is for the most commonly found Pioneer equipment. The high end Pioneer can be called audiophile grade, but it is MUCH harder to find.

Also, much like most brands that used to be high end, over the years they have decreased in quality. Take MB Quart for example. If you can buy a pair of 6 1/2” speakers for $100, it won’t be audiophile grade. Typically audiophile grade components will start off at a price of about $300-$400 and go up from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
More progress



I took the fuse panel cover and got to work. Drilled 2 holes. One for the bass knob and a much smaller one for the power light.

The only problem is the knob won’t extend out far enough from the fuse cover panel to be able to adjust the subwoofer level.

So I took the bass knob apart and then trimmed 1/4” off of the front side of the bass knob housing. Now the light extends out far enough from the fuse panel cover to be seen without sticking out too far. The bass knob itself also sticks out far enough to be useable now. Unfortunately I did not have any 2 part adhesive which would be ideal to secure the bass knob to the fuse panel cover. So I’m trying some adhesive caulk that was in my garage. If it works then great! If it doesn’t work then I’ll look for a 2 part epoxy or some plastic cement.


The next step is to run the bass knob cable and the subwoofer speaker wire under the carpet so it is hidden and protected. Then tidy up the amp wiring a bit and that will complete this project.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Total times the front seat has been unbolted to date: 9


Finished at last!!!!


I spent a couple of hours cleaning everything up. Running the speaker wire and remote bass knob wire under the carpet primarily. Had to unbolt the driver seat for the last time in order to remove the sub from the car. This made it possible to run the subwoofer wire under the carpet.

When I had the subwoofer box out of the car it gave me an opportunity to inspect the subwoofer closely. I was looking for any signs the seat had been rubbing on the box, subwoofer trim ring, or the subwoofer surround. I’m pleased to announce that all was good and there was zero signs of rubbing!! What was found though is a very tiny leak in the seal between 2 boards on the box. After it was sealed up good I sprayed another light coat of paint on the area. Got it all buttoned up and everything sounds great!


Maybe tomorrow I can swing by my local Kia dealership to see if I can record the reaction of some salesmen!

In the meantime, here is a short video I made today of it all.......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh5k_O527NQ
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Well, video footage was not gotten but a salesman at my local Kia dealer came out to listen to my Niro a bit ago. He had one thing to say about it.

Mind blown.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Went to pick up a pie tonight. Had some drum and bass cranked up as I ran in. The 40hz notes could be heard inside the building!!! Not loud in the building, but loud enough to hear the beat.

Yeah, it is louder than I expected it to be.



The best part of it all though is when cruising at 75 mph and the radio volume on 7, the extra bass makes all music sound better. Even my wife likes it, and typically she doesn’t like systems with a sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Here is an update;


My very short mother in law had to drive my car the other day so I took the sub out so she could move the seat almost all the way forward.

There was absolutely no rubbing marks anywhere on the sub nor the box. So it is all a very good fit.


I have caught myself recently cranking the system up, a lot. At one point, I played a song really loud and found my rear view mirror vibrating so much that it moved out of adjustment!!! After the song I had to raise it back up so I could see again.


After playing a signal generator through the system, here are the results;

The effective low end limit is about 35 hz. Below this there is still output that can be felt and heard down to 25 hz, but below 35 hz output drops rather quickly.

There are 2 peaks. One at 42 hz(more than likely the resonant frequency of the car) and another at 53 hz(more than likely the resonant frequency of the sub/box combo). Peak output comes at 53 hz.


With the remote bass knob being so accessible, it is very nice to adjust the volume down when my daughter is in the car, or raise it up when a great song comes on the Hair Band satellite channel!!! I’m very pleased with this setup but I have a confession. Here lately the thought of adding another 10” under seat sub has been going through my mind.........
 

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Discussion Starter #55
A few months in and the sub is still cranking great! On Friday I decided to put my Fluke multimeter on the speaker outputs of the amplifier to see what kind of power it is really putting out. Well, with the single 2 ohm subwoofer I am seeing about 53 volts AC!!! Yikes!!! That is a little over 500 watts going to a sub rated at 250 watts. I guess that gain was a little higher than what I thought it was.

But the amp is not stressing. This model of amplifier has been tested to be able to produce 600+ watts at 2 ohms, and its not getting very hot either so all is good.
 

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Nice job my man. Not many fans on here because its an energy saving crowd but I'm with you. I've had a sub since I was 15 and I'm 44 now.
 

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A few months in and the sub is still cranking great! On Friday I decided to put my Fluke multimeter on the speaker outputs of the amplifier to see what kind of power it is really putting out. Well, with the single 2 ohm subwoofer I am seeing about 53 volts AC!!! Yikes!!! That is a little over 500 watts going to a sub rated at 250 watts. I guess that gain was a little higher than what I thought it was.

But the amp is not stressing. This model of amplifier has been tested to be able to produce 600+ watts at 2 ohms, and its not getting very hot either so all is good.
isn't power V^2/R ?

2500/2 = 1250 W? Of course R May change with frequency.
 

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Unless my long ago electronic math is failing me (and it certainly might be), isn't the speaker measured in impedance, not resistance? I got my ham license in 1980, and I will admit to using that knowledge very little since then. But I believe we need a different method to determine the actual measured power. I just found a web site that might clear it up. Measuring Amplifier Output Power

The following data was taken in a test to show how calculating power when using the voltage across a speaker's terminals instead of the voltage across a non-reactive dummy load will result in false output data. The frequency is the test frequency. The voltage is the voltage that was measured across the terminals of the load (either speaker or dummy load). The power is the calculated power using the speaker's nominal impedance (4 ohms) and the voltage across the speaker's terminals at the various frequencies. The voltage across the dummy load will be virtually the same across the range of frequencies so only one voltage reading was necessary. The amplifier is capable of producing only 205 true watts (RMS power). When using a speaker, it appears to be able to produce as much as 376 watts (which it clearly is not capable of doing).
So making the measurement with a speaker attached, rather than a non-reactive dummy load, will skew the data on the high side. His chart shows 376 watts with the speaker connected, after he verified the amplifier was only capable of 205 watts RMS. So the error was almost double.

Not trying to rain on the parade. I'm sure the sub sounds great, regardless of the power measurement. :D
 
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