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Alignment - Camber or Toe In on Left Rear (Which Is It?)

1803 Views 7 Replies 4 Participants Last post by Techy, May 12, 2022

PAULRIDES

Discussion Starter · May 11, 2022

I have an EX Niro 2017 bought in Feb 2017 (now jsut over 50,000 miles. I have been negligent on rotating tires (only once at 36,000 miles - see story and pictures)

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Tread

Black Handwriting Automotive tire Road surface Grey

Tire Automotive tire Wheel Plant Bicycle tire

Tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive lighting

Automotive tire Wheel Tire Automotive design Automotive exterior

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Issue I had and sort of neglected is left rear wheel was cupping on inside and had road noise (roar) for many miles.

My neglect was not rotating tires until 36,000 miles and not having an alignment when under warranty.

By the time I did rotate, the front tire (pulling tires, etc.) did have more wear (tread depth). Putting it on the back resulted in the inside going slick (another 14,000 miles), but had No Cupping.

And putting the cupped rear time on the front for 14,000 miles actually smoothed out the cupping, and since it had more tread depth to start with it still has some tread on the inside. .

I am thinking I have a camber problem on left rear wheel, but now think it might be toe in. I did some alignment research and found out the rear tire adjustment is limited to Toe In /Out, Camber is factory set to Negative 1.2 +/-0.5 degrees and is not adjustable (guess need parts to fix). Kia Niro : Alignment Repair procedures : Tires/Wheels

So, called around and found Alignment ($89,95 to $99.95 plus tax with no parts). Parts on rear for Camber would be $50 but $160 to install. Would be total of $300 + with tax.

NOTE: One Service Tech said, doubt Camber causing my wear, probably is Toe In. He explained he has a drift show car that has camber at 25 degrees and runs it on the HWY to shows with no notable wear.

I add my VW Sand Rail Buggy (street use) has a lot of camber and no significant wear.

And, come to think of it -- My NIRO tends to pull to the right a little (so maybe rear is toe in?)

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Techy

· #2 · May 11, 2022

PAULRIDES said:
I have an EX Niro 2017 bought in Feb 2017 (now jsut over 50,000 miles. I have been negligent on rotating tires (only once at 36,000 miles - see story and pictures) View attachment 7543 View attachment 7544 View attachment 7545 View attachment 7546 View attachment 7547 View attachment 7548 View attachment 7549

Issue I had and sort of neglected is left rear wheel was cupping on inside and had road noise (roar) for many miles.

My neglect was not rotating tires until 36,000 miles and not having an alignment when under warranty.

By the time I did rotate, the front tire (pulling tires, etc.) did have more wear (tread depth). Putting it on the back resulted in the inside going slick (another 14,000 miles), but had No Cupping.

And putting the cupped rear time on the front for 14,000 miles actually smoothed out the cupping, and since it had more tread depth to start with it still has some tread on the inside. .

I am thinking I have a camber problem on left rear wheel, but now think it might be toe in. I did some alignment research and found out the rear tire adjustment is limited to Toe In /Out, Camber is factory set to Negative 1.2 +/-0.5 degrees and is not adjustable (guess need parts to fix). Kia Niro : Alignment Repair procedures : Tires/Wheels

So, called around and found Alignment ($89,95 to $99.95 plus tax with no parts). Parts on rear for Camber would be $50 but $160 to install. Would be total of $300 + with tax.

NOTE: One Service Tech said, doubt Camber causing my wear, probably is Toe In. He explained he has a drift show car that has camber at 25 degrees and runs it on the HWY to shows with no notable wear.

I add my VW Sand Rail Buggy (street use) has a lot of camber and no significant wear.

And, come to think of it -- My NIRO tends to pull to the right a little (so maybe rear is toe in?)

I agree that it is likely not camber causing the wear and I even question if toe is the problem.]
Unfortunately, like you said, the tires should have been rotated every 6,000 miles (approx) and tire wear would not be what you are seeing now.
Do not try to do your own alignment and be cautious of repair shops that try to sell a boat load of parts.
As I said at the beginning, camber is not the problem and I doubt toe is an issue - excessive toe will cause massive tire wear.
If it was my car, I would replace all 4 tires, rotate every 6,000 miles or twice a year and watch carefully for tire wear. Rotating regularly will not allow enough time for rear cupping to appear.

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Steve in Denver

· #3 · May 12, 2022

Based on your level pictures, camber doesn’t look to significant to me. BMWs seem to run a ton of negative camber - it’s obvious when looking at it without a reference.

I do think camber can cause excessive tire wear (I cal BS on 25 (!) degrees of camber not causing tire wear), but I doubt that’s the culprit in this case. I’d just take it to a shop and have a 4-wheel alignment done.

Also, am I understanding correctly that you have 50,000 miles on the original tires? If so, well done!

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Techy

· #4 · May 12, 2022

The main benefit of camber, whether negative of positive is to improve handling of the vehicle. Some manufacturers want negative and others positive camber and in most cases, it is not very far from 0 degrees. Race applications will mess big time with camber and tire wear in that case is not important.
As I said before, replace the tires and rotate every 6,000 miles and I bet you will not see tire wear. If the car handles well and basically goes straight down the road, your alignment is fine.
I have completed many alignments in my day, and 80% of them were not necessary but when the customer says they need an alignment, the customer gets what they ask for.

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PAULRIDES

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 12, 2022

I appreciate the replies and agree probably not camber (BTW, think I mentioned before - factory is NEG 1.2 +/- 0.5). I thought was camber to start as visibly it is slightly more NEG than the right wheel. However, have learned from various sources, camber probably not cause that much wear if anything it is probably Toe (has to be something as two tires wore more on that inside tread area).

BTW: paid more attention to Pull when driving to the gym WED -- there is little or none (I did think I have felt some pull in the past to the right, but very little).

As far as jumping into do an alignment, not now as have 50,000 on these tires and good for some more (maybe 5000 more) I do hear of high mileage usage on these Michelin original Tires, like seems as much as 60,000 plus. I probably (maybe) would shell out the $89 or $99 for an alignment when buy new tires. Not gonna pay for $50 parts and $160 labor to correct camber even if recommended. Partly not spend that be cause get the impression camber does not cause that much wear (at least the amount I have). Also, I probably will not put another 50,000 on this car as I hardly ever keep a car that long. Plus, I'm 83 yrs old, so we know what age brings (get to where can't drive or die) and we average only around 10000 per year. I will rotate more often, DANG IT - should have before.

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Techy

· #6 · May 12, 2022

PAULRIDES said:
I appreciate the replies and agree probably not camber (BTW, think I mentioned before - factory is NEG 1.2 +/- 0.5). I thought was camber to start as visibly it is slightly more NEG than the right wheel. However, have learned from various sources, camber probably not cause that much wear if anything it is probably Toe (has to be something as two tires wore more on that inside tread area).

BTW: paid more attention to Pull when driving to the gym WED -- there is little or none (I did think I have felt some pull in the past to the right, but very little).

As far as jumping into do an alignment, not now as have 50,000 on these tires and good for some more (maybe 5000 more) I do hear of high mileage usage on these Michelin original Tires, like seems as much as 60,000 plus. I probably (maybe) would shell out the $89 or $99 for an alignment when buy new tires. Not gonna pay for $50 parts and $160 labor to correct camber even if recommended. Partly not spend that be cause get the impression camber does not cause that much wear (at least the amount I have). Also, I probably will not put another 50,000 on this car as I hardly ever keep a car that long. Plus, I'm 83 yrs old, so we know what age brings (get to where can't drive or die) and we average only around 10000 per year. I will rotate more often, DANG IT - should have before.

I wouldn't worry about doing alignment even after you put new tires on, especially if you don't plan to put a great number of miles on after replacement. Rotation will be the difference.
Slight pull to the right on certain roads is not unusual as some roads are cambered away from the center to move rain water to side.

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Glenn

· #7 · May 12, 2022

I had the same problem on my 2019. Inner tread on Both rear tires worn enough to cause noise from tires. I finally got an alignment at 30k. They made a toe adjustment to Rear Tires of both sides. I was worried that getting an alignment now with irregularly worn tires would cause my alignment to be off when I finally get new tires. The tread depth on the rear tires are like new. The tech informed me that the alignment angles are taken from the metal wheel and not from the tires, so I shouldn't worry, my alignment will be fine when I get new tires. I will live with the tire noise which should go away when the cupped tread catches up with the rest of the tire.

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Techy

· #8 · May 12, 2022

Glenn said:
I had the same problem on my 2019. Inner tread on Both rear tires worn enough to cause noise from tires. I finally got an alignment at 30k. They made a toe adjustment to Rear Tires of both sides. I was worried that getting an alignment now with irregularly worn tires would cause my alignment to be off when I finally get new tires. The tread depth on the rear tires are like new. The tech informed me that the alignment angles are taken from the metal wheel and not from the tires, so I shouldn't worry, my alignment will be fine when I get new tires. I will live with the tire noise which should go away when the cupped tread catches up with the rest of the tire.

New tires will never change alignment.
If you rotated your tires, every 5 - 6,000 miles, you would not get the cupped wear and once cupped wear has shown, changing or doing an alignment will not get rid of the cupped wear/noise.

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