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Therefore I'm assuming that some EV regeneration-compensation are done even while cruising in HEV mode.
If you go to the energy flow display, you will see battery charging during ICE operation. No assumptions necessary!

You can garner a good bit of implied information from this display, for example the current load on the car, a combination of speed, incline, wind, and inclement weather or road surface. Notice that your current mpg appears low or high? You can get an idea why.
 

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I'm not sure either of you are stating all the parameters here. Sport mode is available in both EV and HEV mode, right? Which one are you using to get your results? HEV sport mode should actively add charge (if function is the same as the HEV car), where EV sport mode does not.
Entering Sport mode also engages HEV mode, so no there are not two separate functions. It might be nice if it was, but no such luck.
 

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If you go to the energy flow display, you will see battery charging during ICE operation. No assumptions necessary!

You can garner a good bit of implied information from this display, for example the current load on the car, a combination of speed, incline, wind, and inclement weather or road surface. Notice that your current mpg appears low or high? You can get an idea why.
The issue with the energy flow display is that yes, it shows the ICE sending current to the battery. But what it doesn't show is how much current it's sending. I maintain it's only providing enough to maintain the charge at a certain level. The flow display has no indication of the amount of current being sent to or used from the battery. Since the traction battery continues to assist the engine, even while in HEV mode, it's going to send some energy back into the battery to hold the state of charge. It could be sending a 1 amp trickle charge, or a 20 amp stream, but we have no way of telling.
 

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The issue with the energy flow display is that yes, it shows the ICE sending current to the battery. But what it doesn't show is how much current it's sending. I maintain it's only providing enough to maintain the charge at a certain level. The flow display has no indication of the amount of current being sent to or used from the battery. Since the traction battery continues to assist the engine, even while in HEV mode, it's going to send some energy back into the battery to hold the state of charge. It could be sending a 1 amp trickle charge, or a 20 amp stream, but we have no way of telling.
In general I agree with you but I think as we've been discussing there are a couple of situations where the ICE is running for reasons other being in HEV mode and in those cases the car will direct some of the energy to the battery possibly resulting in significant recharging. So far I think we've identified two of those cases.

1. Sport mode - This results in the ICE running much more, sometimes even at idle when stopped. In this case the car will likely end up charging the battery vs. just maintaining the current level
2. Cabin heat needed in EV mode - If you don't have the heat pump option the car has the run the ICE to provide heat. The car probably uses the HSG to load the ICE to speed warmup and that ends up charging the battery

Neither case is what I would call "normal operations" and so most of us won't see it very often. In normal ECO mode you are exactly correct, the car will work to keep the current battery state of charge while driving. You may see a few miles more or less depending on the specific conditions, but overall the car will try to maintain the level.

I also agree it would be nice to have more detailed information available on the exact flow of energy in the system. But that's because I'm a :nerd:

It would be interesting to do an experiment to test the second case. Pick a cold day with the battery say at half charge. Start the car and turn on the heat and just sit there. Does the battery charge increase? :nerd::nerd:
 

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What is eco mode? Another user setting?

It is a trickle charge in the HEV. But that is plenty to raise the SOC to any level if it continues, which it can in sport mode. I believe there is a PID showing at least voltage of that current if you have an OBD reader. I would expect functionality to be virtually identical between the PHEV and the HEV. Surprising to hear mixed results, some confirming and others failing to replicate results. One small probably unimportant difference: the same HSG is charging the 240 volt HEV and the 360 volt PHEV.
 

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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of regenerative braking you get seems to differ between HEV and EV modes. (Just by looking at the needle on the left gauge, it seems like you can get more recharge while braking in EV mode.)

On our trip to the coast last weekend, I used EV mode getting out of the neighborhood, then put it in HEV on the two-lane highway, put it in Sport mode going up the hills, then put in in EV mode coming down the hills. I think it recovers much more energy coming down long hills if you put it in EV mode for some reason.
 

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I think Eco Mode is simply when the PHEV is in EV mode. That's all I've been able to figure out.

I don't think a heat pump is ever an option in the PHEV. I believe the e-Niro is the only model with one. With the limited battery size of the PHEV, I don't think having a heat pump would be cost effective compared to just using the ICE in a low power/low RPM mode.

I'm taking a trip over the mountains next week, probably about 250 miles round trip. I'll see if I can gain any usable range from ICE while I'm on the freeway. I'm sure while climbing the pass it won't add anything, as I expect it will still be offering EV assist. And of course there will be a lot of potential regen on the downhill sides. But I'll still have a fair amount of travel that is closer to level roads, so we'll see.

Yeah, I'm a bit :nerd: myself. I would really like to have more info. That was one of the reasons I didn't get a Honda Clarity. It provided absolutely nothing about EV operation. It didn't even had a charge display to show the time remaining. :eek:
 

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What is eco mode? Another user setting?

It is a trickle charge in the HEV. But that is plenty to raise the SOC to any level if it continues, which it can in sport mode. I believe there is a PID showing at least voltage of that current if you have an OBD reader. I would expect functionality to be virtually identical between the PHEV and the HEV. Surprising to hear mixed results, some confirming and others failing to replicate results. One small probably unimportant difference: the same HSG is charging the 240 volt HEV and the 360 volt PHEV.
ECO is just the opposite of SPORT mode. I think as atc98092 said SPORT mode and EV mode are mutually exclusive but I don't know that for sure.

In the PHEV there are 2 driving modes that can be either automatic or controlled by the driver: EV or Charge Depleting (CD) mode and HEV or Charge Sustaining (CS) mode. As the name implies in CS mode the car controls the energy flow to maintain the current battery charge level. This can evidently be altered by running in SPORT mode which directs otherwise unused energy from the ICE to the battery.

I think the difference in results is just down to differences in driving style. I hardly ever use SPORT mode so I don't see much extra charging. I also don't preheat the cabin when its cold so I don't see much from that either. tomandsheila431 uses SPORT mode more frequently and so they see more charging effect from it. I assume if someone from a cold climate spent a lot of time heating the car they might see a similar effect.

I expect that the HSG wattage (same for both HEV and PHEV) vs battery capacity between the two versions might be relevant. The PHEV battery is almost 6 times larger than the one in the HEV. It will take a lot more driving in SPORT mode to add the same percentage increase in range to the PHEV vs the HEV.
 

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I tend to use Sport Mode when I switch into HEV Mode mostly because I prefer controlling the transmission gear myself. The car will be in 5th very often when 6th is just fine and is a little more economical.

While in SM it will switch to EV and turn the engine off, mostly when regen is available such as coasting. So Sport Mode is not exclusive of EV operation, but it does prioritize using the ICE for motion. It also seems to "sharpen" up throttle response and overall ICE power. I mainly use it when I know I have a long hill climb that stretches the ability of the electric motor to maintain speed or accelerate.
 

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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of regenerative braking you get seems to differ between HEV and EV modes. (Just by looking at the needle on the left gauge, it seems like you can get more recharge while braking in EV mode.)

On our trip to the coast last weekend, I used EV mode getting out of the neighborhood, then put it in HEV on the two-lane highway, put it in Sport mode going up the hills, then put in in EV mode coming down the hills. I think it recovers much more energy coming down long hills if you put it in EV mode for some reason.
I can't think of a good reason why you can recover more energy while braking in EV mode. The only thing possible is that the brake pedal is remapped between the two modes and that is unsafe - braking should be predictable.

Easy test to prove to yourself that this cannot be true, use cruise control downhill. Both modes, same hill, same set speed, the charge gauge should read the same.

Yes, the PHEV larger traction battery can absorb more energy the smaller HEV battery, so benefits more from a long downhill. Best scenario for that is to live at the top of a long hill and not fully charge it.

It also has a larger motor, and theoretically can regen at a higher level from a steeper hill. However, the steepest hill I've been on, my smaller HEV motor had no trouble with regen holding 25 mph. Battery was topped out at the end of the five mile downhill, with only one bar left when I crested the hill.
 

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The only time I see a difference in max regen on the gauge is speed based. If I'm below 40-45 MPH, it won't go more than about half way on the scale. But at a higher speed, it will peg to the bottom of the scale. Pedal pressure doesn't seem to make a difference once a certain level is reached. But I believe I've seen that same max regen in both EV and HEV mode. All speed related.
 

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The PHEV's logic for managing the charge seems to respond to a number of different inputs. If you start with a full charge and just drive the car, it will run in EV mode until it has used up the electric range, at which point the battery has about a 20% charge. Then it will start the ICE, but it will continue to draw down the traction battery below 20% if a situation comes up where it needs more horsepower than the ICE can easily deliver (like climbing a hill). Later, if an opportunity arises, it will recharge the battery back to about 20% or a bit more, and then it will toggle back to EV mode for a bit until it draws it down to about 20%.

I'm not 100% certain, but I have the impression that when the charge has dropped below the set point and the car is in EV mode, it might still run the ICE at low RPM (kind of like it does for cabin heating) just to replenish the charge to the set point. But this behavior seems to be inconsistent and it probably only happens when you are far below the set point.

20% and 0 miles of electric range seems to be the default set point. You can change that to some other level by manually putting the car into HEV mode while you still have some electric range available. The subsequent behavior is similar: it will attempt to maintain the charge at whatever the level was when you toggled into HEV mode, but it will borrow energy from the battery and reduce your EV range when driving conditions require more horsepower, and it will pay it back later when an opportunity arises. If it increases the charge by more than about two miles over what it was when you toggled into HEV mode, it will switch back to EV and use up that surplus.

I haven't actually tried this, but I suspect that if you really want to increase the charge/electric range with the ICE, the way to do that might be to toggle into HEV mode, maybe using sport mode maybe not, and when the charge at some point rises one or two miles above the charge level when you toggled into HEV, momentarily toggle back to EV wait a few seconds, and then toggle back to HEV. I suspect that this would establish the set point at the current, higher, level of charge and then the car would begin trying to maintain that level.

On a related note, I have noticed that during an extended climb up a mountain highway, the PHEV will perform much better if I've preserved some of the EV range by manually switching into HEV mode while I still had several miles of EV range. On a recent 2000 foot ascent, the car "borrowed" about five miles of EV range during the climb to supplement the ICE. When I got to the top, the EV range was gradually restored to the range that I had when I toggled into HEV mode.
 

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deltasmith, I concur with your observations. That all seems to match what I have observed in my short time of ownership. For extended hill climbing, I find that Sport Mode really sharpens up the entire car's performance, and also allows me to select a higher gear than the car's logic suggests, which also lowers fuel consumption a bit. Until my ideal BEV car is available, I find the Niro PHEV is about the best configuration for my personal use.

My minor wish list would be for a little more powerful EV motor, for better acceleration in EV mode (particularly uphill) and about 50% more battery capacity. My daughter's Pacifica has a 16 kWh battery, and that seems ideal for a PHEV. Even in that large, heavy minivan she gets about 35 EV miles, and 30 MPG or better fuel economy when the engine does run. That size battery in a Niro would probably be about 40 EV miles, which would cover 90% of my driving. Add a heat pump so the engine isn't required for cabin heat, and it would be the ideal PHEV.
 

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You can definitely charge in sport more, but you need to engage sport mode then drive like you're in grandma/grandpa mode.

To charge, try to keep the Eco meter below the half point of the thick green Eco bar as much as you can (or in other words at or below 1/4 of the whole green Eco bar). I confirmed it on my way home from work -- doing this I gained about 4 EV miles over 10 miles of driving. I was in the right lane doing 50 it 55 in a 60 with lots of people passing so not something I'd do regularly (plus the fact that it is an inefficient charging method).

I also confirmed the charge rate with an obdii sensor that staying in that first half of the thing Eco bar charges the battery (shows up as negative battery consumption on the battery current pid sensor). The closer to the left the higher the charge rate, but of course you need to balance to manage a reasonable speed.

I have used this method once for a practical purpose when camping. My wife and I were arriving very late at night to our campsite with 0 EV miles after driving in HEV for 150 or so. A few miles before the campsite I did the sport mode charging trick and gained 2 miles, allowing me to quietly drive to our campsite in EV mode.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 

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This thread reminds me of another observation that I cannot explain. At high speeds and down a slight hill I will notice the needle about 1/4 th into the green, the engine off and the energy flow indicating charging the battery. I haven't believed the hill to be steep enough to even coast at those speeds much less charge. Additionally I always thought that if the needle was in the green, there is no regeneration. I've never been able to notice a % increase in battery state in this situation.....
 

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OK, I did some further testing today, as I had some errands to run that drained the battery. I did find that yes, in Sport Mode it is possible to add some charge to the battery. But I also found that on "normal" roads, it was almost impossible to stay in charge mode very much. As tinypocket mentioned, you have to be extremely light-footed on the throttle. I found I could do it as long as the road was fairly level, and I was cruising at a steady speed. Any effort to accelerate or maintain speed while climbing a slope would cause current to flow from the battery to the drive wheels. I also confirmed that during a long downhill stretch by remaining in Sport Mode the engine would continue to charge, along with the regen current being sent to the battery. If I switched out of Sport mode, the engine immediately turned off and the only current shown was regen.

So bottom line: yes I was wrong that it is possible to charge the battery in Sport Mode. However, the conditions and effort required to generate any significant increase in SoC just wasn't worth it. I also checked the MPG display while in this charge mode (the instantaneous bar display) and saw only 25 MPG while using that charge function. That is significantly more costly than plugging the car in. Very inefficient to charge the battery this way for any length of time at all. I could see the benefit (again as tinypocket mentioned) to allow silent driving into a campground late at night. Not efficient at all, but allows one to be as stealthy as possible and not disturb others.
 

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I think if you put it in Sport and activate CC and go on a longish freeway trip, you will find it easy to add charge. In manual Sport mode, sure, the car is trying to be responsive to input. On CC, no responsiveness necessary, especially standard CC.
 

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I think if you put it in Sport and activate CC and go on a longish freeway trip, you will find it easy to add charge. In manual Sport mode, sure, the car is trying to be responsive to input. On CC, no responsiveness necessary, especially standard CC.
Well, I am going on a long-ish freeway trip either Friday or one day next week, but it's going to be over a mountain pass with lots of ups and downs until I get to the other side. It's about 110 miles there, and of course the same back. I'll do some experimenting to see how it might do at freeway speeds. I-90 from Seattle across the Cascades is sea level to just over 3000' MSL, and our destination is about 1500' MSL.

But if it drags the MPG down as severely as I saw this morning, I won't stay in that mode for long. There's a number of L2 chargers in that town, so I might try to juice it up some before we head home. Probably save most of the EV range for the last leg home. I use the CC constantly, and I agree that it is able to keep the energy consumption lower than I can with my right foot.
 

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I drove my 2019 PHEV premium 500 miles from CA to AZ yesterday. I noticed that in cruise control in HEV mode that I did get a few miles of battery charge on flat ground. This was NOT in sport mode. I try to turn off EV for long trips so I have battery if I want to nap with the AC on. I usually forget for a few miles after each stop. At one point I had 11 miles remaining. I was at 14 remaining when I got here.
 
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