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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know at what point of degradration of the soc on the battery that Kia will replace it. Honda will replace theirs when it will only take a 66% soc.
 

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Not sure what threshold Kia has set for the PHEV's/EV's. But considering the 8 year warranty that the battery comes with, its not something that any new owners need to worry about. I think typically you'd only see a loss of a couple percent a year.
 

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Not sure what threshold Kia has set for the PHEV's/EV's. But considering the 8 year warranty that the battery comes with, its not something that any new owners need to worry about. I think typically you'd only see a loss of a couple percent a year.
10 years in US.

WARRANTY
10 Year/100,000 Mile Limited Powertrain Warranty
10 Year/100,000 Mile Limited Battery Warranty
5 Year/60,000 Mile Limited Basic Warranty
5 Year/60,000 Mile Roadside Assistance
*Ask dealer for details

I'm expecting that in 10 yrs there will be new/improved (higher capacity and/or lower cost) battery technology available to upgrade the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know they will replace it. I was just wondering if it would be when it drops to a 20 mile chg. or a 10 mile chg. Big difference.
 

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Neither Hyundai or Kia has stated any warranty for SOC. Normal wear and tear is not covered, but normal is not defined for battery degradation. But the algorithm is so strong, I'd be surprised if the battery degrades more than 15% over 100,000 miles. By the way the same statement applies to the Hyundai "lifetime" battery warranty.
 

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10 years in US.

WARRANTY
10 Year/100,000 Mile Limited Powertrain Warranty
10 Year/100,000 Mile Limited Battery Warranty
5 Year/60,000 Mile Limited Basic Warranty
5 Year/60,000 Mile Roadside Assistance
*Ask dealer for details

I'm expecting that in 10 yrs there will be new/improved (higher capacity and/or lower cost) battery technology available to upgrade the battery.
also, the battery in the phev is free given the Fed tax credit. Getting the phev was a nobrainer for me. With the phev I have applied for a 3.5c kWh off peak rate (normal 12~15c). Local car miles and home ac maybecome supper cheap.
 

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Federal law requires a minimum of 100,000 miles/8 years..........NYS here where I am follows California emission standards (and many other Northeastern states do as well as well as Northwestern states), those minimums are 150,000 miles/10 years.......... Hyundai is lifetime original owner hybrid battery warranty, but NOT Kia (not sure why? same company kinda sorta??) however both Kia and Hyundai lithium ion polymer batteries do NOT require replacement of the entire battery, weak individual cells can be replaced........ word of advice,,,,,,,, when it comes time to replace the 12v lithium ion battery expect to pay about $350.00 ......... I have a co-worker that had one die in a 2014 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid and dealer quoted $350.00..............however both Autozone & Advanced Auto parts have a "suitable replacement" for around $125.00 .......... I think in her Sonata it could have been installed by nearly anyone as it is located in the rear of the car.....and looks much like a typical 12v lead acid battery,,,,,,,,,,,,,,however with the Kia Niro and Hyundai Ioniq, the 12v lithium ion battery is contained in the same housing as the 240v hybrid battery, under the rear seat.........not a good idea to try replacing that as a Sunday project, better left to the dealer.
 

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Different brands have different marketing. Just the way business works. But the battery warranties are effectively similar in covering battery failure, versus degradation. If a battery is going to fail, it will do so long before 100,000 miles. "Lifetime" warranty is just a gimmick having no legal meaning. Marketing.
 

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the PHEV battery has no declared warranty as to what % of original capacity it will hold. In the UK Mitsubishi declared for their Outlander PHEV "This includes a guarantee that if the traction battery capacity falls below 70% in the first 8 years/100,000 miles a free repair or replacement will be provided." Couldn't find any similar statement in Kia, and no sales rep could find an answer. Not a deal breaker for me, I have reasonable expectations of a few percent loss/year. I just came out of a 2013 PHEV Ford Cmax Energi, EV battery capacity dropped about 40% in 5 years, estimated EV range dropped from 25 to 15. Still works perfectly as hybrid, since that portion of the battery capacity (about 2 kWh of the total 7.2 kWh for the Ford) is always reserved. So the plug in component dropped from 5.5 kWh available for pure EV driving to 3.8 after 5 years. Heat is the enemy, either during charging or operation, and these air-cooled battery packs get plenty hot. Ford would only reply that lithium ion battery degradation is 'expected' and would not warranty any lower limit. 10 years/100,000 mile warranty is meaningless unless there is a total failure to hold even a hybrid charge. I was invited by a law firm to be the class representative to sue Ford to declare a warranty replacement level, but declined. Same law firm got the Leaf owners replacement batteries if it fell below 70% in 7 years.
 

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I believe the Cmax has basically no active thermal management of the battery (similar to the Leaf). Passive cooling only. The Niro is a step above that, still air cooled but with a fan. Battery life should be better than the Cmax or Leaf by a good bit.
 

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I believe the Cmax has basically no active thermal management of the battery (similar to the Leaf). Passive cooling only. The Niro is a step above that, still air cooled but with a fan. Battery life should be better than the Cmax or Leaf by a good bit.

Additionally the battery is inside the car not outside exposed to the elements, or road heat.


the CMAX is liquid cooled, similar to the volt.
 

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Additionally the battery is inside the car not outside exposed to the elements, or road heat.


the CMAX is liquid cooled, similar to the volt.
Sorry gents, both incorrect, I just traded in my 2013 Cmx Energi PHEV for the Niro PHEV. Cmax battery (actually all EV Batteries) are inside the car, at least never exposed to "the elements". Niro was designed as a hybrid, so they left room under the seat and the cargo bed. The Cmax was designed as a diesel/gas car (been in Europe for years), the USA Hybrid and PHEV jsut stacked the bateeries in the cargo area. Cmax is not liquid cooled, identical to Niro in a fan blows interior air across the battery pack and into the cargo area. This is extremely ineffective - I used a Torque Pro to monitor HVEB temperature, and you would be astounded how hot it gets during charging, use on road in EV mode and heat soaking in a car left in the summer sun. This is what kills LiOn batteries. And why Kia (and Fords) aren't talking about degradation oin their warranty - if you ever pushed them, they might say it is warrantied to work as a hybrid, since it will always do that much
.
 

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Additionally the battery is inside the car not outside exposed to the elements, or road heat.


the CMAX is liquid cooled, similar to the volt.
Ahhh...great point on the location! I never thought of that aspect. Duh. The PHEV has a little vent right beneath the left rear passenger position INSIDE the vehicle. That should make a pretty big difference to moderate battery temps.
 

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Sorry gents, both incorrect, I just traded in my 2013 Cmx Energi PHEV for the Niro PHEV. Cmax battery (actually all EV Batteries) are inside the car, at least never exposed to "the elements". Niro was designed as a hybrid, so they left room under the seat and the cargo bed. The Cmax was designed as a diesel/gas car (been in Europe for years), the USA Hybrid and PHEV jsut stacked the bateeries in the cargo area. Cmax is not liquid cooled, identical to Niro in a fan blows interior air across the battery pack and into the cargo area. This is extremely ineffective - I used a Torque Pro to monitor HVEB temperature, and you would be astounded how hot it gets during charging, use on road in EV mode and heat soaking in a car left in the summer sun. This is what kills LiOn batteries. And why Kia (and Fords) aren't talking about degradation oin their warranty - if you ever pushed them, they might say it is warrantied to work as a hybrid, since it will always do that much
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The air intake for the battery is the vent beneath the seat. In other words in hot weather instead of drawing in 120 degree asphalt urban heated air and drawing it across the battery (which is pretty useless), 70 degree interior air will be drawn across the battery. I don't know if it heats in the winter but presumably if it does, the same effect happens in reverse. Heated interior air would be pulled over the battery.

I think that's pretty clever. Also the peak power draw when charging is only 3.3kw so I have a hard time believing that battery heats up anywhere nearly as bad as a Leaf.
 

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I think that's pretty clever. Also the peak power draw when charging is only 3.3kw so I have a hard time believing that battery heats up anywhere nearly as bad as a Leaf.
During my 5 years with the Cmax I learned to leave the windows open when charging - if not, the car interior was very warm from the battery pack heat during charging in the confined space. You might try your own experiment - plug in your Niro with the windows closed and see how it feels after two hours of charging.
 

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During my 5 years with the Cmax I learned to leave the windows open when charging - if not, the car interior was very warm from the battery pack heat during charging in the confined space. You might try your own experiment - plug in your Niro with the windows closed and see how it feels after two hours of charging.
I haven't noticed any interior heating charging at 1500W.
 

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I hope it last a while the battery assembly is $2941.00. Don't know if you have to change the whole assembly or the batteries can be changed only? Hybrid battery.

Battery Assembly - Kia (37501-G5100)
 

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Large cities have hybrid repair shops that charge less for replacement batteries. By the time you need a new battery out of warranty, third party batteries will not only be cheaper, but have more capacity for the same volume. Might even be lighter.
 
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