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Discussion Starter #1
My apologies for the dumb question. I just started doing research on the Niro and no nothing about hybrids and the tax credits. Does the regular hybrid qualify for it or is it just the Plug-In hybrid?

I’m in Florida, by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I looked around my area and not a PHEV in sight. Plus Florida has no state incentive either. State government tries to stifle solar energy efforts even though we get sunshine 90% of the year. There’s no way they’re going to encourage people to adopt fuel efficient cars.

Plus it might not suit our needs. My eldest will be doing highway drives to and from university.
 

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Nouse, why would highway driving not be suitable for the PHEV?

I had to purchase my PHEV out of state and saved $2k more than the lowest discount in-state. So yes, don't be afraid to ship.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Nouse, why would highway driving not be suitable for the PHEV?

I had to purchase my PHEV out of state and saved $2k more than the lowest discount in-state. So yes, don't be afraid to ship.
I was under the impression that the ICE is doing most of the work during highway driving so you’re not getting the benefit from the EV motor. But, I have no experience with EV/Hybrids.

May I ask what state you’re in and which state did you order from? Also, I assume you worked with the out of state dealer instead of your local ones?

Going through the Kia site, here are 2019 plug-ins 1000 miles away.
 

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I was under the impression that the ICE is doing most of the work during highway driving so you’re not getting the benefit from the EV motor. But, I have no experience with EV/Hybrids.

May I ask what state you’re in and which state did you order from? Also, I assume you worked with the out of state dealer instead of your local ones?

Going through the Kia site, here are 2019 plug-ins 1000 miles away.
I went with the PHEV even though my commute is 80 miles round trip. So far I'm averaging 70mpg overall, with about 25% of my commute being on the battery. On my last tank, which had some additional battery miles running errands around town over the weekend I ended up with a ridiculous 92mpg over 700+ miles. So yeah, I think the PHEV is just fine even if you have a lot of highway miles.

I feel your pain on the problem of PHEV inventory, when I bought mine back in April there was exactly one within 500 miles. Worth the effort though in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I went with the PHEV even though my commute is 80 miles round trip. So far I'm averaging 70mpg overall, with about 25% of my commute being on the battery. On my last tank, which had some additional battery miles running errands around town over the weekend I ended up with a ridiculous 92mpg over 700+ miles. So yeah, I think the PHEV is just fine even if you have a lot of highway miles.

I feel your pain on the problem of PHEV inventory, when I bought mine back in April there was exactly one within 500 miles. Worth the effort though in my opinion.
Wow! That’s amazing.

And how did you handle the purchase? Did you go through a local dealer or contacted the other dealership directly? And are you charged your local tax or the other state’s tax?

How much am I looking at for shipping? Are we talking a couple hundred dollars or closer to $1000?
 

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I went with the PHEV even though my commute is 80 miles round trip. So far I'm averaging 70mpg overall, with about 25% of my commute being on the battery. On my last tank, which had some additional battery miles running errands around town over the weekend I ended up with a ridiculous 92mpg over 700+ miles. So yeah, I think the PHEV is just fine even if you have a lot of highway miles.

I feel your pain on the problem of PHEV inventory, when I bought mine back in April there was exactly one within 500 miles. Worth the effort though in my opinion.
Ditto. Almost the exact same story. 90 miles round trip to work. My scheme in the winter will be to start off in HEV mode rather than end in HEV (when battery runs out). That way the heater will get everything all warm and the coolant will be hot so then switching to BEV for the last 10 miles, it probably won't kick on the gas engine at all. Then repeat that on the way home.
 

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Wow! That’s amazing.

And how did you handle the purchase? Did you go through a local dealer or contacted the other dealership directly? And are you charged your local tax or the other state’s tax?

How much am I looking at for shipping? Are we talking a couple hundred dollars or closer to $1000?
We were really lucky, the only car within 500 miles was actually only 100 miles away from us :D. I've never paid to ship a car so I can't address that. I have flown to Wisconsin to buy one and driven it back home to Maryland, but that's a different story.

Would also like to know which state and Specifically which dealership.
King Kia in Gaithersburg MD.
 

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I was under the impression that the ICE is doing most of the work during highway driving so you’re not getting the benefit from the EV motor. But, I have no experience with EV/Hybrids.

The Hybrid is perfectly fine suted for highway driving. You are correct in the sense that the ICE is going all the work when you are at highway speeds. But as well consider, you have to get up to the highway speed, and then look at the size of the engine. You most comon car has around a 3.5L or so V6 engine. The Kia has a 1.6L I4. So straight off the top you have less than 1/2 the cubic displacement. So even when crusing at speed, the amount of gasoline that the engine will consume even at low crusing revs will still be quite a bit less than an average similar sized car will. All you are giving up is a bit of the acceleration to get up there, and a much higher top speed, but we all drive within reason of the posted speed limit. This isn't the autobaun.



Then you also need to look at rush hour highway traffic. it is different than city and quite honestly far worse. For that the Hybrid design shines. You can use the electric motor to power you forward for the inch stop inch stop part where your ICE will likely spend most of it's time shut off, and then combinaion for the short sprints up to speed.
 

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Hybrids are not just using ICE at highway speeds. They are charging the battery when the car is slowing, and going downhill. The traction battery is adding torque during acceleration and going uphill, thus allowing for a smaller more fuel efficient engine. And sometimes there is enough charge for EV at highway speeds. Non-hybrids get none of these advantages.
 

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Hybrids are not just using ICE at highway speeds. They are charging the battery when the car is slowing, and going downhill. The traction battery is adding torque during acceleration and going uphill, thus allowing for a smaller more fuel efficient engine. And sometimes there is enough charge for EV at highway speeds. Non-hybrids get none of these advantages.
Smaller size helps with mpg but the biggest difference is the efficiency advantage of the Niro's Atchison cycle ICE.

Consider Hyundai/Kia 1.6L in multiple forms

GDI Gasoline direct injection, Otto cycle, 140HP, ~30% efficiency , e.g. base Kona ~30 mpg
GDI Gasoline direct injection, Otto cycle, turbo, 195HP , ~30% efficiency , e.g. higher trim Kona ~30 mpg
GDI Gasoline direct injection, Atchison cycle, 105HP, ~40% efficiency, e.g. Niro ~45 mpg

The Atchison cycle ICE works because as you point out the motor compensates for the reduction in HP.
 

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I don't do much city or rush hour bumper-bumper driving, but I can tell you in highway driving I routinely get >50MPG. The EV comes on fairly frequently at ~60MPH, and I've even had it on at 70MPH. Most of the time my highway driving is ~62-65MPH.
So for me the highway driving is same or a bit better than in-town driving.
 

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My usage at home is typically 3 to 5 40 mile round trips weekly of mixed highway and city driving. That nets me about 58/59 mpg if max speed is 65 mph and temperatures are around 80 degrees. Just finished a trip to the West Coast and back and in similar temperature conditions, 54 mpg was my average less on the way back ~49 mpg due to significant temperature drop and wind conditions so not a valid comparison. On the West Coast, my trip pattern was very similar and I again netted 58/59 mpg (measured, not displayed) over the 14 days I was there.

I've seen the same thing locally, on trips 50 miles each way or longer, mpg drops. 10 miles to 20 miles does best. Adding a significant amount of city miles at each end of medium length trip, much of it in EV from gentle driving, appears to maximize mpg.

I never have shorter trips than 10 miles so I can't speak to the efficiency of those trips. I have a bicycle and motorcycle for those trips.

EV comes on regularly on the highway, but only when the battery gauge is significantly above half way. Up to 75 mph EV mode has been noted, but usually my speed is restricted to 65 mph so that is where I notice it the most (I'm in standard CC most of my trips).
 
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