Engine clutch actuator fluid
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Nope, but probably a good idea. There seems to be a correlation between lurching at speed and cars over that mileage. I've read on the Ioniq forum that US dealers charge $80 for this service. Can be hard to find someone to offer the service, needs special equipment and Korea delayed updating dealers on this unusual service.
The clutch has a very low volume of hydraulic fluid compared to brake systems with reservoirs. That means water contamination has a large effect, and the clutch no longer works reliably, causing lurching.
The clutch has a very low volume of hydraulic fluid compared to brake systems with reservoirs. That means water contamination has a large effect, and the clutch no longer works reliably, causing lurching.
OK I have the same question. Just about to the 3rd oil change at 22,500. The manual in my 2018 PHEV Niro LX says every 22,500 miles to change the clutch actuator fluid. But as you noted it's just this tiny little reservoir of DOT 3 brake fluid. I can't seem to find anywhere in any manual online or video that shows how to change this fluid. If it's a 1 minute job, I don't want to pay someone $80 or whatever it is to do it. Do they literally bleed the lines and all that or do they just suck out the fluid in the reservoir with a syringe and poor a little new fluid in?
Same issue here. I took our 2017 Niro in to the dealer for the 22500 mile service, and they said they only check the clutch fluid and top it off if necessary. But the manual mentions changing it. I'd do it myself if I knew how. I may try just pulling some fluid out of the reservoir and replacing it. That's what I do on my 2011 Corvette.
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Because there is no clutch pedal, it appears that flushing the clutch line would require a power bleeder (a device that can pressurize the system or put it under vacuum). You can find those on Amazon for about $50, but I didn't see one that said it was designed to fit a Kia reservoir or bleeder.
Also, there appears to be a clutch "learning" mode that needs to be enabled via a shop diagnostic system if you make any changes in the clutch behavior. Presumably, that wouldn't be necessary if just flushing the line, unless you either introduce or remove an air bubble.
My first thought was that this seems like an overly precautionary service interval for clutch fluid. But when you think about the fact that there's a computer running the clutch and that there have been a number of complaints about shifting behavior, perhaps it's not unreasonable. In general though, the main reason to change clutch/brake fluid is because it absorbs moisture and other contaminants. Changing it periodically is likely to prolong the life of the actuator and any seals.
It's interesting that the maintenance schedule doesn't seem to suggest replacing the brake fluid, ever.
Also, there appears to be a clutch "learning" mode that needs to be enabled via a shop diagnostic system if you make any changes in the clutch behavior. Presumably, that wouldn't be necessary if just flushing the line, unless you either introduce or remove an air bubble.
My first thought was that this seems like an overly precautionary service interval for clutch fluid. But when you think about the fact that there's a computer running the clutch and that there have been a number of complaints about shifting behavior, perhaps it's not unreasonable. In general though, the main reason to change clutch/brake fluid is because it absorbs moisture and other contaminants. Changing it periodically is likely to prolong the life of the actuator and any seals.
It's interesting that the maintenance schedule doesn't seem to suggest replacing the brake fluid, ever.
Very low volume, so a minuscule amount of water will have an outsized effect. A change definitely needs to be done by dealer unless you are a really insane "no dealer is going to work on my car" kind of guy with some serious bucks willing to invest more for required equipment what the dealer will charge for a single change.
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Yeah, the volume might be relevant. But the primary opportunity for water to enter is presumably via the reservoir cap, and if you leave that on, then water shouldn't be getting in. If water is getting in, then apparently it's entering at an extremely slow rate, or 18 months (22,500 miles) wouldn't be nearly often enough.
On the Niro, as with many other cars that have a hydraulic clutch, you use DOT-3 brake fluid for both the brakes and the clutch. So the same concerns about brake fluid (particularly the concern about it attracting moisture) apply equally to both.
My Honda dealer recently recommended that I change the brake fluid on (what is now my wife's) 2008 CRV. It was kind of discolored, the car's in really good shape, and now that it's my wife's primary car, I'm a little more inclined to perform certain kinds of preventative care than I would be if I was driving it (partly because I love my wife, partly because I don't trust her quite as much as I trust myself to notice when the car has a new quirk that might need attention). In the past, I've only changed brake fluid or clutch fluid when I had the lines open for some other reason (broken flexible brake line, leaking slave cylinder, etc). It was a brand new experience to me to change the brake fluid as just a preventative kind of thing, but I decided it was worth doing (except, not at the Honda garage). I checked just now and I see that Honda didn't include changing the brake fluid in the scheduled maintenance table for that car, but they did put in a foot note recommending that it should be replaced every three years.
My bad, I've gone for a really long time with a number of cars where I never changed out the brake fluid. And then on a couple of them, I wound up doing it because I had to bleed the lines anyway due to some other maintenance that was needed. I don't think changing the fluid would have prevented flexible brake hoses from springing a leak on cars I owned in the distant past, but it might have prevented a clutch slave cylinder from leaking, maybe.
Although the Niro Owner's manual is pretty clear that the clutch fluid should be changed every 18 months or 22,500 miles, it only requires that the brake fluid be inspected, doesn't require it to ever be changed (although I suppose a dealer might inspect it and then recommend that it be changed).
Given that several people have stated that their dealer didn't know how to perform this service, while others said they paid upwards of $80 for it, I might wind up being one of those people that says the dealer isn't touching my car (for this particular service). Assuming you can get away with doing it without needing to retrain the computer and with just the investment in a power bleeder and a bottle of brake fluid, I might wind up doing this one myself when I reach the point where the manual recommends that it should be done. My total cost would be slightly less, I'd have confidence that it was done thoroughly (rather than wondering if maybe the mechanic just changed the fluid in the reservoir).
I'm a fan of having the dealer change my oil because that's usually a "loss leader" for them and the few dollars I save in doing it myself doesn't justify the effort, time, mess, and also because they record the event and also because they are likely to tell me about things that I might not find out about if I didn't visit them. But when the service cost goes up and the service manager is signaling that they don't normally do that and don't exactly know how to do it, I might rather be the one that learns how to do it right, rather than paying the dealer's mechanic to learn at my expense and with less interest than I have in ensuring that it's done right.
On the Niro, as with many other cars that have a hydraulic clutch, you use DOT-3 brake fluid for both the brakes and the clutch. So the same concerns about brake fluid (particularly the concern about it attracting moisture) apply equally to both.
My Honda dealer recently recommended that I change the brake fluid on (what is now my wife's) 2008 CRV. It was kind of discolored, the car's in really good shape, and now that it's my wife's primary car, I'm a little more inclined to perform certain kinds of preventative care than I would be if I was driving it (partly because I love my wife, partly because I don't trust her quite as much as I trust myself to notice when the car has a new quirk that might need attention). In the past, I've only changed brake fluid or clutch fluid when I had the lines open for some other reason (broken flexible brake line, leaking slave cylinder, etc). It was a brand new experience to me to change the brake fluid as just a preventative kind of thing, but I decided it was worth doing (except, not at the Honda garage). I checked just now and I see that Honda didn't include changing the brake fluid in the scheduled maintenance table for that car, but they did put in a foot note recommending that it should be replaced every three years.
My bad, I've gone for a really long time with a number of cars where I never changed out the brake fluid. And then on a couple of them, I wound up doing it because I had to bleed the lines anyway due to some other maintenance that was needed. I don't think changing the fluid would have prevented flexible brake hoses from springing a leak on cars I owned in the distant past, but it might have prevented a clutch slave cylinder from leaking, maybe.
Although the Niro Owner's manual is pretty clear that the clutch fluid should be changed every 18 months or 22,500 miles, it only requires that the brake fluid be inspected, doesn't require it to ever be changed (although I suppose a dealer might inspect it and then recommend that it be changed).
Given that several people have stated that their dealer didn't know how to perform this service, while others said they paid upwards of $80 for it, I might wind up being one of those people that says the dealer isn't touching my car (for this particular service). Assuming you can get away with doing it without needing to retrain the computer and with just the investment in a power bleeder and a bottle of brake fluid, I might wind up doing this one myself when I reach the point where the manual recommends that it should be done. My total cost would be slightly less, I'd have confidence that it was done thoroughly (rather than wondering if maybe the mechanic just changed the fluid in the reservoir).
I'm a fan of having the dealer change my oil because that's usually a "loss leader" for them and the few dollars I save in doing it myself doesn't justify the effort, time, mess, and also because they record the event and also because they are likely to tell me about things that I might not find out about if I didn't visit them. But when the service cost goes up and the service manager is signaling that they don't normally do that and don't exactly know how to do it, I might rather be the one that learns how to do it right, rather than paying the dealer's mechanic to learn at my expense and with less interest than I have in ensuring that it's done right.
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No argument: I see the same. Sorry if something I said on that topic was confusing. My point was that they seem to be inconsistent in mandating this for the clutch, but not for the brakes. Both systems use the same fluid and so have the same concern about absorbing moisture and other contaminants over time.
The difference is that the braking system has a significant reservoir and the clutch actuator has none. Not sure why Hyundai/Kia did this, but it does change maintenance. I believe dealers that discourage the clutch actuator oil change are basing this on their knowledge of braking systems. They may also not be able to do it, not having invested (or their mechanics having invested) in the necessary tools.
I upload scanned pictures of the tech instructions to change the clutch actuator fluid.
Technically seems simple, without access to a Kia scan tool it is beyond DIY, IMHO.
There are 5 files:
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=527 (Page 1)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=529 (Page 2)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=531 (Page 3)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=533 (Page 4)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=535 (Page 5)
Technically seems simple, without access to a Kia scan tool it is beyond DIY, IMHO.
There are 5 files:
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=527 (Page 1)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=529 (Page 2)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=531 (Page 3)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=533 (Page 4)
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=535 (Page 5)
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Thank You!
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128 Posts
110,000 miles on mine. No change yet. Lol. If you change every fluid at the interval they say. You'll go broke.
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No problem. I will ride along to the 200,000 mile mark. Then start over with a new car.
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I always look forward to your posts/comments, you are the trail blazer for us Niro owners. Keep posting. Thanks.
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Removal
1.
Turn the ignition switch OFF and disconnect the battery (-) terminal.
2.
Drain the hydraulic oil from the reservoir using a syringe.
Installation
1.
Install in the reverse order of removal.
2.
Refill the specified lubricants in the reservoir and then perform the air bleeding using the GDS / KDS.
Specified lubricants : Brake fluid DOT 3
Quantity : Remove air from the hydraulic line and theninject hydraulic fluid to the reservoir so that it comes between the MAX and MIN levels of the reservoir.
http://www.kniro.net/engine_clutch_actuator_components_and_components_location-1165.html
But after reading the service manual, it doesn't look to difficult.
Kia replaced a foot pedal with an electric motor.
1.
Turn the ignition switch OFF and disconnect the battery (-) terminal.
2.
Drain the hydraulic oil from the reservoir using a syringe.
Installation
1.
Install in the reverse order of removal.
2.
Refill the specified lubricants in the reservoir and then perform the air bleeding using the GDS / KDS.
Specified lubricants : Brake fluid DOT 3
Quantity : Remove air from the hydraulic line and theninject hydraulic fluid to the reservoir so that it comes between the MAX and MIN levels of the reservoir.
http://www.kniro.net/engine_clutch_actuator_components_and_components_location-1165.html
But after reading the service manual, it doesn't look to difficult.
Kia replaced a foot pedal with an electric motor.
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For what it's worth; my experience with hydraulic clutches in manual transmission vehicles has been that, unlike brakes, there is so much circulation that simply changing reservoir fluid a couple of times effectively changes the fluid. I have no idea if this applies to Niro or not nor is it likely to satisfy warranty requirements.
Spoke with local dealership. They weren't pushy about insisting the service, said it would run about $100, and take less than an hour. I had DOT4 in my garage. I'm at 15,000 on my 2018 Niro PHEV. Here's my actuator fluid in reservoir (left) and Valvoline DOT4 on the right. The fluid in reservoir has a smell similar to what ATF smells like when it's been in too long, but I'm still 7,500 miles away from service. I'm thinking it may be worth it to just have them drain what's in the reservoir line and in the actuator itself (if that's what they do).
Attachments
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Dealership doesnt know what to do...
I am having a hard time to get a dealer to do this service. I showed up and the service rep that greeted me tried to tell me this was not required because I have an automatic transmission. I showed him the manual and he was still dismissive. They brought the car back and after 15 minutes gave me a quote for $350 and it will take 3 hours. They told me they would need to take bottom cover off, drain the fluid and then drive it around for a couple hours. I walked out because they clearly did not know what they were doing and I did not trust them to work on the car.
I believe they did not have the proper equipment to service the car. I think they were going to drain and fill the reservoir, then drive it around to manually activate the actuator. Then keep filling it until it was within the limits. If this was their plan, they could possibly do damage to the clutch.
I am waiting to hear from another dealership.
I am having a hard time to get a dealer to do this service. I showed up and the service rep that greeted me tried to tell me this was not required because I have an automatic transmission. I showed him the manual and he was still dismissive. They brought the car back and after 15 minutes gave me a quote for $350 and it will take 3 hours. They told me they would need to take bottom cover off, drain the fluid and then drive it around for a couple hours. I walked out because they clearly did not know what they were doing and I did not trust them to work on the car.
I believe they did not have the proper equipment to service the car. I think they were going to drain and fill the reservoir, then drive it around to manually activate the actuator. Then keep filling it until it was within the limits. If this was their plan, they could possibly do damage to the clutch.
I am waiting to hear from another dealership.
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