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I just joined the forum looking for discussions on the EV. Perhaps I'm missing the threads but all I see are discussions on the hybrid, not the EV. So let me ask these two question of those who have the EV:

- What mileage are you seeing? I've been averaging 4.8 miles/kwh, according to the onboard computer. That's using max regen (I rarely touch the brakes).

- What range are you getting? The specs listed a 239 mile range but I've getting a consistent 300 miles!! That's far better than the specs which makes me wonder if it's a fluke, or was Kia being cautious on the specs after they got burned cheating on the MPG specs for ICE cars a few years ago.
 

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Welcome to the forum! We suggest adding your location in your profile, and you car details in your signature line.

You are right that the majority of forum members have either the HEV or PHEV. remember the hybrid has been available the longest, the PHEV next, and the EV is a fairly recent release. I might have gone for the EV when I got mine, but there were no EX Premium trim models within 800 miles at the time.

I have seen/read several times that the e-Niro and the Hyundai Kona EV are beating the EPA mileage estimates fairly easily, as you seem to also confirm. Of course, it's going to drop significantly when winter arrives, unless you're in a southern state that doesn't see really cold temps. The PHEV has no indication of EV power consumption, and even if it did it wouldn't compare to the EV model, since you have a much more powerful motor and battery.

But I can give another range data point. The other day I had to run enough errands that I used all the EV range. I had a hill I went up and another I came down, and I had the A/C on the whole time. My car is rated at 24 miles with HVAC enabled, but I went 34 miles before the engine kicked on. So Kia has definitely done a good job on electrical efficiency.
 

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EPA ratings of EV range are most likely derive from a calculation based on a range of temperatures. Thus on an annual basis, the range may be accurate. Exceeding it under optimal conditions, and failing to meet it under other conditions - like cold, inclement, windy weather; and speed. And I believe the EPA heavily depends on manufacturer data to come up with their numbers, not actually performing physical tests on all vehicles. That is why some manufacturers seem to come in with overly optimistic numbers across their range.
 

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I just joined the forum looking for discussions on the EV. Perhaps I'm missing the threads but all I see are discussions on the hybrid, not the EV. So let me ask these two question of those who have the EV:

- What mileage are you seeing? I've been averaging 4.8 miles/kwh, according to the onboard computer. That's using max regen (I rarely touch the brakes).

- What range are you getting? The specs listed a 239 mile range but I've getting a consistent 300 miles!! That's far better than the specs which makes me wonder if it's a fluke, or was Kia being cautious on the specs after they got burned cheating on the MPG specs for ICE cars a few years ago.
As others have said your actual range will depend strongly on your driving style and road conditions. I have the PHEV and I've been getting ~3.5-4 miles / kWh in EV mode over 18 months and 27,000 miles. Most of my driving is under 50mph with a bit of highway driving each day. I almost always exceed the 26 mile projected range even with the A/C on so at least in my case, the estimate is conservative. As in everything else, YMMV. :D
 

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Good points, ATC98902. I just updated some info in my profile. Hopefully it's visible.

I knew the EV was very new, just not sure how many they've sold so far this year - and how many of those people will eventually find this forum. In fact, I had to wait months before the dealer got one that I could buy.

As for mileage diminishing in the winter, that will certainly happen but the amount might not be as bad as other EVs. Kia offers a "cold weather" package that includes a heat pump for heating the cabin. It's an "option" but always included in cars sold in cold climates, such as this one. So my car came with it (and it wasn't free). In theory a heat pump should be far more efficient than resistive heat because the battery is not being used to general heat, just transfer it from outside to inside. It's the same technology as heat pumps used for residences. It's basically air-conditioning in reverse. One article I found on the Dept of Energy's website says that heat pumps use about 50% less electricity than resistive heating. They were discussing residential systems so that might not apply to the Kia. Winter is coming so we'll see.
 

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Yes, a heat pump is usually far more efficient, up to a point. Once the outdoor temp drops below around 30F, resistance heat will still likely be necessary to completely warm the cabin. You can minimize that of course by using the heated seats and steering wheel (if you have that) and keep the cabin temp setting lower than normal. Some people (like myself) can't remain comfortable at lower temps, however, so there's still going to be a current draw for resistance heat. My fingers start turning blue, then white, even when it's as warm as 60F outside, so I'll be using the heat plenty in wintertime. Of course, Seattle doesn't get as cold as Boston. :)
 

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I have the Canadian EV SX Touring which is close to the EX Premium in USA. Off course we get the heat pump for free, and also health care for free. But I digress. ;)

I have driven almost 7500 km by now and the average according to the car is 16.1 kWh/100km. Yeah I know metric, pain in the a.. So that is an average of almost 3.9 miles/kWh recorded over 4700 miles. Now consider that I commute about 50 miles per day of which roughly 40 miles is on the only highway we have in our part of the world. But it has an HOV lane, which us EV drivers are allowed to use. So lots of 75 mph, I average about 62 mph on the HOV lane. Which means I sometimes need to make swift passings because some folks actually stick to the speed limit (which is below my average 0:) ) And that driving style consumes energy.

In the city I am forced to more moderate speeds and accelerations due to traffic density and therefore average around 4.4 miles/kWh. Still not that impressive if you listen to PHEV drivers, but keep in mind that the EV has a much more powerful battery and motor, which begs to be used. And our city is everything from flat, and who said you should not accelerate when going uphill?

I do drive in ECO mode. Not to save kWh, but to limit my speed (set at 75 mph), otherwise I would be in real trouble.
The kWh is dirt cheap here. At home I pay US$0.085, most public chargers still offer the charging for free! So with an avg of almost 17k miles per year, I am paying US$30 per month on electricity for charging (do almost all of my charging at home). I used to have the HEV which costs me US$150 per month on gas for the same distance (yup, those gas drinkers pay carbon taxes at the pump (about US$0.26/gallon :eek:), electricity here is 95% renewable non CO2 emitting - hydro). So it feels great to have a sporty car, environment friendly and super cheap on the variable costs.

Hope this helps. :)
 

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The kWh is dirt cheap here. At home I pay US$0.085, most public chargers still offer the charging for free! So with an avg of almost 17k miles per year, I am paying US$30 per month on electricity for charging (do almost all of my charging at home). I used to have the HEV which costs me US$150 per month on gas for the same distance (yup, those gas drinkers pay carbon taxes at the pump (about US$0.26/gallon :eek:), electricity here is 95% renewable non CO2 emitting - hydro). So it feels great to have a sporty car, environment friendly and super cheap on the variable costs.

Hope this helps. :)
I'm convinced my next car will be a full BEV. No more gas. Hopefully in 3 years when my lease is up on my PHEV I can score a used Niro EV, Kona EV, or the Soul EV.
 

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I'm convinced my next car will be a full BEV. No more gas. Hopefully in 3 years when my lease is up on my PHEV I can score a used Niro EV, Kona EV, or the Soul EV.
I gather you just got your PHEV. Why not the BEV? Not available in your state? Or considered too expensive?
 

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I gather you just got your PHEV. Why not the BEV? Not available in your state? Or considered too expensive?
Yeah I've had the PHEV for about 3 months. Previous vehicle was a 2013 Volt. After two PHEV's I think I'm ready to wean myself off of gas. I could have driven 4 hours to Atlanta to get a Niro EV, but the price at this time was just too far out of my budget. The Niro EV is $8000 more than the comparably equipped PHEV and that would have been $200 extra per month to lease. The math didn't make sense for the EV Niro (I figured up yearly gas and maintenance and PHEV is still much cheaper at least initially), but perhaps in 3 years when my PHEV lease is up, there will be some used Kona EVs, Niro EVs, or Soul EVs, that I can pick up within my budget.

Plus there might be some used Model 3s within 3 years that are reasonably priced as well. Lots of options for future BEV buyers in the future. :)
 

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Lots of options for future BEV buyers in the future. :)
That's the truth. My lease is also up in 3 years (May '22), and I'm almost certain my next car will be a BEV. Might be a Niro, or might be the upcoming VW Crozz (may end up being called the ID.4 or something like that). Don't want anything smaller, or if bigger not by much. The Kona from all reports is a great EV, but it's also smaller than a Niro and reports are the interior isn't near as comfortable. I just don't think I can live with the Model 3's dash. I don't like the idea that almost everything has to be controlled via the touchscreen.
 

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I have the PHEV, and while I don't generally record my recharge KWH's. I did after one trip which brought my battery to almost nothing (well 20% or whatever just before it goes into hybrid mode). I did 67 km's and it took 7.99 KWH's to recharge. Assuming my math is right that works out to be 5.2 miles per KWH. Not sure if the EV or PHEV is expected to be more efficient in pure EV mode. Maybe the PHEV, as I know if I hit the go peddle to hard the ICE will kick on, so I always drive in the "ECO" zone. Plus the PHEV is about 430 lbs lighter.
 

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I have the PHEV, and while I don't generally record my recharge KWH's. I did after one trip which brought my battery to almost nothing (well 20% or whatever just before it goes into hybrid mode). I did 67 km's and it took 7.99 KWH's to recharge. Assuming my math is right that works out to be 5.2 miles per KWH. Not sure if the EV or PHEV is expected to be more efficient in pure EV mode. Maybe the PHEV, as I know if I hit the go peddle to hard the ICE will kick on, so I always drive in the "ECO" zone. Plus the PHEV is about 430 lbs lighter.
That's probably accurate. As you noted, our PHEVs are lighter than the EV. Also, if you drive to never engage the ICE you are treading very lightly on the throttle, so automatically driving more economical. in addition, the EV motor in the PHEV has far less power than the EV version, so it uses less power overall.

Yes, 20% is where the ICE will generally fire up. But depending on your driving in HEV mode, I've seen my battery go as low as 12-13% with hill climbing or other harder driving. But that does seem to be the threshold where your range reads zero and the engine comes on. Of course, when it clicks to 0, it really 0.99, so you have just under a mile before you're "really" at zero. :D

You got me beat really good. The best I've done in EV mode was 34 miles (54.7 Km), although that was with the A/C on and some up and down hills. Still pretty good!
 

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I put in the money for a Niro EV reservation back in Dec’18 without any idea what the car would cost. But I figured with my daily average of 50 miles the PHEV wasn’t going to be a big difference from the HEV. I made a test drive in the EV (first car in Canada!) during the Vancouver auto show late Mar’ 19. No pricing available, but I was hooked. The acceleration, the silence. Yes, I had to take deep breath when the dealer called me 2 weeks later and told me the price. It was CA$8000 more then I had estimated. But I have been looking for an EV for 3 years and the promising Model 3 was just too small on the inside (I sat in one during the auto show). And the base model 3 is equally expensive as the Niro EV (at least here in Canada). So the Model 3 version I would take would be really out of my financial range. So I traded in the HEV with a substantial loss (because of an vehicle accident), but figured that I would drive the EV for at least 8 years without a problem. Which will be a new record, because I never had a car longer then 4 years (because of leasing) with one exception: I once owned a VW Vento for 7 years (125,000 miles): that car kept working.
I can’t lease because I drive too much for leasing. So I financed and while my monthly charge is a bit more then my normal budget, it is about the same cost as I don’t have to buy the gas and the maintenance will also be substantially lower (all they do during annual maintenance is top off brake fluid and rotate tires).
What I also underestimated was the cost of installing the L2 charger at home. They had to pull a lengthy new cable from the distribution panel to the garage: US$1300 all in. But very professionally done and the company was super accommodating to my wishes.
So financially maybe not the wisest decision. But hey, I am not looking back and enjoy the ride every day. In particular the adaptive cruise control is a delight on my commute on the HOV lane. That was not possible with my previous Niro, in which I had some pretty scary moments on the highway. Metro Vancouver is home to the worst driving habits I have experienced in my life, and if I tell you that I have driven 500,000 miles in some 20 countries, I have something to back up my claim. The HOV lane is almost like a VIP lane, and keeping the stress level lower is also worth something.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic!
 

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As mentioned by PBodifee the Niro EV offers far better real life range than spec'd by Kia. I have had my 2019 Kia Niro EV SX Touring (Canadian version of the EX Premium with all options added), since May 6th, I have 9500km on it. I used to drive in Normal and Sport mode all of the time, just because it's fun, but now I mix Eco and Sport modes. My last few charges have averaged about 14.1kWh/100km, compared to about 16kWh/100km previously. I have gone 452km on a full charge and that was in Sport and Normal with a fair mix of city and highway. I have also gone 360km, all highway at about 110km/h, bad weather (about 5C, rain and wind), on one charge and had about 40km showing as left over range. This car is a beast.
With that being said, range depends on: Driving style, weather, temperature, highway vs city, grade of the road (hills vs flat), use of AC or heat, accessories, etc. So there are lots of variables that can affect your range, but you will probably see more than the published range from Kia on a regular basis. Good thing you got the Premium options for cold weather, it will help a lot.
 

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With that being said, range depends on: Driving style, weather, temperature, highway vs city, grade of the road (hills vs flat), use of AC or heat, accessories, etc. So there are lots of variables that can affect your range, but you will probably see more than the published range from Kia on a regular basis. Good thing you got the Premium options for cold weather, it will help a lot.
I am tracking power usage while driving using car scanner on the iPhone which can read the data from the BMS ECU in real time. I think the biggest contributor is speed (because of aerodynamic drag). Even acceleration and grade gets compensated by regen during deceleration and down hill (even on minor slope). AC is hardly noticeable for cooling. Today after work my car had an inside temp of 46C. Within 5 minutes the AC had it down to 29C (the outside temp) and within another 10 min down to 22C. Cooling down takes about 1.5kW, once at set temp it takes about 0.7-0.8 kW. To me not a reason not to use the AC! I even leave the car on with AC while I have to wait some time when picking up someone.
Will be interesting to see what the winter will do to energy consumption. I guess it will be again minor dependent on how well the car is insulated. What may be a concern for those living in extreme low temperatures is the fact that the battery capacity will go down (which impacts range). But given that the battery can be fully recharged overnight you must be in real bad commuting situation where you would use all the capacity in a single day.
 

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Yes, speed is the biggest contributor to power usage. Even with the ICE. My old Subaru was most fuel efficient around 55 km/h, in 4th gear. I've altered my route to work, now it's off the highway and surprisingly it's a smidge faster. I always knew it was a shorter distance but thought it took longer because of the slower speeds and traffic (28 vs 20 km's).


If it takes 5 minutes to cool the car to the outside temperatures I would have opened the windows instead for the first bit of the drive. You can dump heat a lot faster with the windows open. At least until you get on a highway where it would be too noisy.
 

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If it takes 5 minutes to cool the car to the outside temperatures I would have opened the windows instead for the first bit of the drive. You can dump heat a lot faster with the windows open. At least until you get on a highway where it would be too noisy.
I open the windows and tilt the roof. But when I leave work I am within 1-2 minutes on the highway in the HOV lane. So not enough time to do natural cooling.
 

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Yes, speed is the biggest contributor to power usage. Even with the ICE.
In an ICE acceleration is much bigger contributor to overal energy consumption. Stop and go traffic is killing eco driving in an ICE, not so much in an EV due to the much higher efficiency at low RPM where there is a lot of torque available.
My point was that basically only speed in an EV is of real influence on energy usage. Sorry for mixing up the terminology, but there is a substantial difference between energy and power. An electromotor can produce a huge amount of power in a very short time interval and therefor use very little energy. So these quick fast accelerations in an EV is not really killing the range. As EV-olution already mentioned, driving in normal or sport mode doesn’t make the car consume more energy. The ‘lower’ modes just limits you in using the power so you are saving some energy. The trick is to learn how to control the right pedal. And it only matters if you go on a road trip and if the stations are far apart.
 

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In an ICE acceleration is much bigger contributor to overal energy consumption. Stop and go traffic is killing eco driving in an ICE, not so much in an EV due to the much higher efficiency at low RPM where there is a lot of torque available.
My point was that basically only speed in an EV is of real influence on energy usage. Sorry for mixing up the terminology, but there is a substantial difference between energy and power. An electromotor can produce a huge amount of power in a very short time interval and therefor use very little energy. So these quick fast accelerations in an EV is not really killing the range. As EV-olution already mentioned, driving in normal or sport mode doesn’t make the car consume more energy. The ‘lower’ modes just limits you in using the power so you are saving some energy. The trick is to learn how to control the right pedal. And it only matters if you go on a road trip and if the stations are far apart.
the energy required to reach a given velocity is the same under slow acceleration (low power) or fast acceleration (high power). The reason an EV is more efficient in city driving vs an ice is due to a) regenerative braking and b) a motor with a much broader efficiency band. It is not a power (HP) thing.

For steady (no acceleration) faster highway driving, wind resistance eventually becomes the dominate factor, as you have stated.
 
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