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Discussion Starter #1
My family is considering getting a PHEV or EV Niro. As background, this would be my primary car. I have a short 10-11 mile drive to work, which I only do 4 days a week and a free 240v charger at work. We don't have a garage at our house so unless we want to run a very long extension cord from our porch, which is not ideal, we'll have to get a plug or charger installed for home charging. There are a couple free chargers near our house. On the one hand the PHEV seems interesting from the perspective of price and flexibility, on the other hand it's appealing to be totally free of a gas engine. Also, we haven't test drove them yet (will be this weekend) but the EV sounds like more fun to drive. How has winter driving impacted the MPG and range of your PHEV and EV? For New England folks, how has charging your EV been on road trips within the region? Looking at various apps and maps there appear to be quite a few charging stations near major road ways but I'm curious to hear some real world experiences.
 

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Welcome! Yours is an interesting situation. Without a garage, you will have to get an outdoor rated EVSE (charger), so that will cost a bit more. Of course, free charging at work for 8 hours could be enough that you never need to charge at home. One consideration is how much you drive on the non-work days, when you aren't charging at work. And how far might you drive on those non-work days.

I've had my PHEV for just over 3 months, and if Kia offered me a no cost trade (just a higher payment) on my lease to switch to the e-Niro I would probably jump on it. The PHEV has many strengths, particularly the flexibility to drive extremely long distances with just a quick stop at a gas station. And on gas alone it has a range of about 600 miles. During these warm days, I've been able to get 34 EV miles, even with the A/C on, but I would enjoy the pure EV more. The down-side to the PHEV is that the electric motor is only a little more powerful than the standard hybrid, and climbing long hills or accelerating up freeway on-ramps there isn't enough EV power to keep up with traffic, so the ICE has to start. The EV has a much more powerful motor. You cannot floor the throttle without the ICE starting, and of course when it gets cold the ICE is the only way to warm the interior.

In general the two versions are quite similar. The front grill is different on the EV, the charging port is in front instead of the left front fender, it has a knob for shifting instead of a "normal" console shifter, and it has an electronic parking brake instead of the foot pedal. One thing the EV lacks is a driver's memory seat. It does offer a power seat, but no memory positions. The PHEV does have that.

Be sure to read the post that Dovidan linked, as he has experience testing the EV, and I've only read about it. :)
 

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i made a different choice recently, but i'll throw it in quickly in case it helps:

i was considering PHEV vs just hybrid.
if i had gone PHEV, there were questions about ranges and places i could recharge. i might not even make a full roundtrip to work without recharging. and couldn't get work's garage to put in any kind of charging.
i would have had to worry about refueling/charging my car every day at least once.

i ended up going hybrid. now i only have to think about refueling once a month. this ended up being the best pragmatic decision i ever made. lots of saved time, reduced risks, and also if i have to unexpected flee weather or earthquakes, i am not worrying about if i have a charge etc.

good luck with your decision
 

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i made a different choice recently, but i'll throw it in quickly in case it helps:

i was considering PHEV vs just hybrid.
if i had gone PHEV, there were questions about ranges and places i could recharge. i might not even make a full roundtrip to work without recharging. and couldn't get work's garage to put in any kind of charging.
i would have had to worry about refueling/charging my car every day at least once.

i ended up going hybrid. now i only have to think about refueling once a month. this ended up being the best pragmatic decision i ever made. lots of saved time, reduced risks, and also if i have to unexpected flee weather or earthquakes, i am not worrying about if i have a charge etc.

good luck with your decision
I had a similar situation but ended up going with the PHEV. At that time I had an 80 mile round trip commute but with a garage at home I could charge every night. Economically it ended up saving a bit over the HEV and with the additional tax breaks the purchase price wasn't significantly different. Also, I really wanted the features of the EX Premium PHEV so that was a significant factor.
 

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i made a different choice recently, but i'll throw it in quickly in case it helps:

i was considering PHEV vs just hybrid.
if i had gone PHEV, there were questions about ranges and places i could recharge. i might not even make a full roundtrip to work without recharging. and couldn't get work's garage to put in any kind of charging.
i would have had to worry about refueling/charging my car every day at least once.

i ended up going hybrid. now i only have to think about refueling once a month. this ended up being the best pragmatic decision i ever made. lots of saved time, reduced risks, and also if i have to unexpected flee weather or earthquakes, i am not worrying about if i have a charge etc.

good luck with your decision
I went PHEV so I could charge or not charge, depending on what happened. I can currently charge at work, but that will not be the case all the time. I can charge at home, but I am a renter, so that may not be a realistic option if I move to a place without a garage. I like the idea of saving money by charging at home and work (over 2100 miles on half a tank of gas so far), but I like the freedom to gas up on longer trips or just use it as a regular hybrid if my circumstances change.
In the PHEV, you don't actually have to worry about being charged, but you can save money by doing so. Of course, if you are not going to charge, it is probably not worth it, but it was for me.
 

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At the time I purchased our 2018 PHEV I knew the Niro EV was going to be released in 2019. I read up on it and EV's in general, and decided the PHEV was a going to be a better fit for our rural living. Most of our mileage is electric but I look forward to the occasional trip just to run the ICE and move some fluids. We live in a mild winter climate so I don't even have to heat the Niro, just turn on the heated seat for the five minute commute. I charge overnight using the Level 1charger every 3 to 4 days. For us our PHEV is essentially a less costly EV without the range anxiety that comes with a lack of available charging stations in our part of the state.
 

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If money wasn't an issue, I would have gotten the EV Niro but it was just too far out of the budget for me. My lease on my PHEV Niro is $200 less than what it would have been on the EV Niro. I did the math and with gas and maintenance on the PHEV I'm still coming out WAY less than leasing the EV Niro (which is no maintenance really other than tire rotations).

My advice, if you have the money, go with the EV Niro. Performance will be better, no maintenance, no gas, and a better center console arrangement.

If you're on a budget, then PHEV is the way to go. It's about the same price as the HEV Niro after the tax credit and it will save you more money on gas than the HEV will. I really don't understand why most folks pick the HEV over PHEV since they're basically the same price after the credit and the PHEV comes better equipped. Even if you don't have the tax liability to take the full credit, you can lease it and KMF will pass the tax credit on to you in the form of lease cash which lowers the adj cap cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks everyone for your responses. I did see your thread, Dovidan, and am reading it with great interest, it's been very informative. I'm particularly curious to hear what people's experiences with charging EVs has been while doing road trips in the New England region. The network appears to be impressive but it's hard to know what it's really like until you use it. Your thread is making me think seriously about leasing instead of buying for exactly the reason some of the users on there decided to lease. In my state we have an additional $1500 tax credit on EV vehicles (not available for PHEVs) but I still don't think the price is competitive. If I lease the PHEV for a year or two it will likely be a better time to buy.
 

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Thanks everyone for your responses. I did see your thread, Dovidan, and am reading it with great interest, it's been very informative. I'm particularly curious to hear what people's experiences with charging EVs has been while doing road trips in the New England region. The network appears to be impressive but it's hard to know what it's really like until you use it. Your thread is making me think seriously about leasing instead of buying for exactly the reason some of the users on there decided to lease. In my state we have an additional $1500 tax credit on EV vehicles (not available for PHEVs) but I still don't think the price is competitive. If I lease the PHEV for a year or two it will likely be a better time to buy.
Exactly, in 2-3 years there will be some used BEV Niros available off-lease for pretty good prices. BEV values tend to tank significantly in that time frame. That might be what I end up doing. The PHEV is just a BEV with training wheels. I think I'll be ready to make the switch by then.
 

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I'm not convinced all BEVs will drop precipitously in value after 3 years like the I3 or Leaf. Good ones like the Tesla retain their value and I'm convinced the the Niro/Ioniq/Soul/Kona BEVs with liquid cooled batteries will do the same. Part of the apparent drop in value of used BEVs in the US comes from amortizing the rebates. So the starting new price is really $5,000 lower. The original owner cannot profit twice from the rebate given normal supply and demand. That supply and demand will be distorted once a manufacturer's rebates have expired though - hard to figure that one out but my best guess is that competition from new cars will adjust for that factor, making used cars less desirable.

Another factor in future sales is safety tech is getting better every model year. So as little as three years can make a used car feel outdated. Which of course makes a lease the best deal. I thought about it myself but decided that since I often not use my car for a month, it would make it seem like I wasn't getting my money's worth. So I bought it outright with the intention of driving it into the ground.
 

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Another factor in BEV depreciation is that most of what's on the used market right now had a range of less than 100 miles. When the e-Niro/Soul/Kona hits the used markets with their 200+ mile range, I think they will retain their value much better. And I agree about the models with liquid cooled batteries also retaining value better. And models with heat pumps will also keep that little edge.
 

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Approximately 80 percent of BEV owners lease their vehicles. The preference of the majority of BEV owners is to continue driving an EV vehicle with the most current battery and safety technologies available in the marketplace. Long term vehicle ownership is not the norm for most EV drivers. The secondary market for EV vehicles is a work in progress.
 
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