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Has anyone done the math? We will be looking at the Niro. My wife now has a Leaf, which she loves. We expect to get an EX EV. But her daily commute is 25 miles - perfect for the PHEV. I think I would be fine with either version.
It costs less, but has 1/3rd the rebate. And for weekend shopping, she prefers the freedom and capacity of my RX.
Other factors - I'm retired, and drive a regular car. So added mileage isn't a factor. We aren't in a hurry, and can wait for the EV.
She may be retired in a few years, and will drive less. (or yikes - more, with her free time!)
 

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I don't know about the math, but I would look at it more for functionality. If she's only going to use the car for commuting and errands around town, the EV might be the way to go. But if you guys want to use the car for longer road-trips occasionally, the PHEV has the ability to go over 500 miles on a tank of gas and you can just fill up the tank and keep going without waiting to charge. Just my $.02.
 

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Are you keeping the leaf, and adding the Niro? If so, bear in mind that if you only own 2 EV cars (and nothing else), you'll be unable to make any drives further than about 100 miles from your home, unless you are sure you can recharge at your destination. That probably fine for commutes, but it eliminates your ability to take longer drives on the weekends. Like TK6 said, you will get at least 500 miles out of a tank in the PHEV (my experience has actually been 600-700 miles, figuring I can usually squeeze in about 6 overnight recharges during each tank of gas). And it only takes 2 minutes to refuel, versus hours for the EV.


The Niro EV is a fantastic option for people, but in my opinion you should still have another car with a fuel tank for when you need more miles. I think if all of my cars were EV, I'd be living with constant range anxiety, and feeling really limited in where I can go for weekend trips.


If your milegage stays under 25 miles/day typically, then one tank of gas could last you thousands, or even tens of thousands of miles in the PHEV. It would effectively be an EV, as it would almost never be using the gas engine.... but you'd have no range anxiety.


If/when EV cars have comparable range with HEV's someday, and 440V charging stations are everywhere (including rural areas), then I might consider having an EV as my only car... but until then, I would never consider buying an EV for anything besides a weekday/commuting-only car.
 

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We drive our PHEV daily almost exclusively using battery power. But when we make trips to Costco (1.5 hours one way), we can enjoy the trip knowing we have the ICE to get us there and back without any range anxiety or added time charging the car. I've read that more than 80 percent of BEV owners lease their vehicles because they're not into long-term ownership with a BEV. Leasing a vehicle was not a desirable option for us.
 

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Are you keeping the leaf, and adding the Niro? If so, bear in mind that if you only own 2 EV cars (and nothing else), you'll be unable to make any drives further than about 100 miles from your home, unless you are sure you can recharge at your destination.
That poster is buying a PHEV. No range limitation.
 

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My wife now has a Leaf, which she loves. We expect to get an EX EV. But her daily commute is 25 miles - perfect for the PHEV. ...We aren't in a hurry, and can wait for the EV.
In your present reality, The PHEV model would be a good deal for the buck. BUT, like you said, if our wife will retire soon, and you're not in a hurry, the EV will be the best choice for years.. no more gaz.! freedom!;)
 

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I don't know about the math, but I would look at it more for functionality. If she's only going to use the car for commuting and errands around town, the EV might be the way to go. But if you guys want to use the car for longer road-trips occasionally, the PHEV has the ability to go over 500 miles on a tank of gas and you can just fill up the tank and keep going without waiting to charge. Just my $.02.

Wow, the PHEV only gets 500 miles/tank? My 2017 EX HEV gets 525-540, and no plugging in as it's an HEV
 

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Has anyone done the math? We will be looking at the Niro. My wife now has a Leaf, which she loves. We expect to get an EX EV. But her daily commute is 25 miles - perfect for the PHEV. I think I would be fine with either version.
It costs less, but has 1/3rd the rebate. And for weekend shopping, she prefers the freedom and capacity of my RX.
Other factors - I'm retired, and drive a regular car. So added mileage isn't a factor. We aren't in a hurry, and can wait for the EV.
She may be retired in a few years, and will drive less. (or yikes - more, with her free time!)

I haven't done the math. I love my PHEV. I drove it from Southern CA to Northern CA during the recent holidays: a trip that likely would have required the EV to stop and recharge at least twice in both directions I think. But since I've been back (since Jan 1), I've managed to do almost all of my traveling in full electric mode: the only time I ran the ICE was for a few minutes on one day when I needed some heat and defogging capability. It occurred to me today that I've spent all this time driving around in electric mode, with a battery that's admittedly kind of wimpy when compared to the acceleration that a lot of pure EVs enjoy, and that battery has had to carry not just me, but also the weight from a full tank of fuel and a stone cold ICE, that it wouldn't be challenged with if it had been designed as a pure EV. Of course, it would be carrying more battery weight, but still... for kind of driving I've been doing since Jan 1, an EV might have been superior.

I was a bit reluctant to take the plunge on the PHEV because the design is still pretty new. I took some comfort in thinking that some of the issues that early HEV owners had encountered might have been addressed in the subsequent release of the PHEV. But I may yet have occasion to regret buying in so early in this model's technology life cycle. I would have a similar concern about the first year's release of the EV. If you want the EV, and especially if you prefer to purchase rather than lease, you might do better to wait until year 2 (assuming that the rebates stick around and that various tariffs don't completely reconfigure the imported auto market to a significantly higher price point by then).
 

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Wow, the PHEV only gets 500 miles/tank? My 2017 EX HEV gets 525-540, and no plugging in as it's an HEV
Shure you do 525-540 miles, but how much are on EV mode in the HEV system ?



Last summer on my HEV, the most i did was 596 miles (960km) [875km HEV / 85km EV] but you question the PHEV that can do 500 miles (804km), but it's on gaz only.! but, how much more when you plug it!? ... When i did the trade of my HEV to a PHEV in december 2018, the first tank lasted 1056 miles / 96.5mpg (1700km / 2.4l/100km) .. but with the extra cold day's in the -25c of January, yes, i did less.! 484 miles 42.0mpg (780km / 5.6L/100km). It gives me an avg 68.4mpg (3.4L/100km) for both fuel up.! I think it's not just good, i think it's really good and i am a happy camper with it because it reflects my day to day reality. :)
 

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Wow, the PHEV only gets 500 miles/tank? My 2017 EX HEV gets 525-540, and no plugging in as it's an HEV
I said "over 500 miles", not "exactly 500 miles". As you know, there are myriad variables when it comes to mileage. I didn't want to say 600 miles and have someone cry that they ran out of gas/battery on their trip up the Rocky Mountains at 80 mph in the dead of winter. ;)
 

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My HEV has never gotten less than 500 miles, with best tank being 700 miles in optimal conditions. A PHEV will automatically have a range 25 miles less than that (if not recharged) simply because the tank holds one less gallon than the HEV. Then of course, it has bigger tires than the base HEV and carries several hundred pounds more. Your mileage will vary as they say.
 

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My HEV has never gotten less than 500 miles, with best tank being 700 miles in optimal conditions. A PHEV will automatically have a range 25 miles less than that (if not recharged) simply because the tank holds one less gallon than the HEV. Then of course, it has bigger tires than the base HEV and carries several hundred pounds more. Your mileage will vary as they say.
Lets get the facts straight.! i have a couple of minutes too spend here.!

1- "the tank holds one less gallon than the HEV" .. HEV 2019: 11.9g / PHEV 2019: 11.3g ... BIG difference.! 0.6g (2.2L)

2- " it has bigger tires than the base HEV" .. HEV 2019: P205/60R16 / PHEV 2019: P205/60R16 ... WOW!!!!! never saw that one coming!

3- "and carries several hundred pounds more" ... HEV 2019: Curb weight 3106lb to 3287lb, GVWR weight 4079lb to 4255lb / PHEV 2019: curb weight 3161lb to 3274lb, GVWR weight 4189lb to 4255lb .. Serve they saidddd.. : GVWR weight on the PHEV has 110 more pounds.! Yep, there goes the economy.! :|

* https://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/niro/2019
* https://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/niro-plug-in-hybrid/2019

4- "best tank being 700 miles in optimal conditions" .. Sorry to say this, but... Really Dude?!!! 700 miles (1126km) on one (1) full tank on a HEV.!!?? :nerd: Man, was it in the nevada desert with, no hills, no climate, temparature of 110f, wind in the back at 35 miles per hour to get this..! Impressive!

;)

Now, lets be serious shall we.!
The major plus thing about an PHEV is that after the millage that you can make on the HEV mode, you can add all the extra millage or km if you plug it ... some people posted on FB that they did over 3000 miles with just one full tank on their PHEV. If their reality is less than a 26 miles range from point A to B, and recharge, and recharge and recharge.! You can do alot.!
 

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Sorry, didn't know the tank size increased in the 2019 PHEV. The 2018 size was 10.9 gallons. Six tenths of a gallon at around 50 mpg is thus a range reduction in gas miles of thirty miles over the HEV. About what I said, but I actually included a presumption that the PHEV range would include a full battery with 25ish miles that the HEV doesn't have.

Range is what is possible in a single trip. You have EV single trip range, and total single trip range. That is what the car is displaying when you turn it on. Your non-single trip range will increase every time you fill up with gas or plug in, in fact it has no limits.

HEV battery size is 1.6 kWh and weighs 33 kg. PHEV battery is 8.9 kWh and weighs 183 kg. In pounds the difference is 330 pounds, or several hundred pounds. Added to that is the additional weight of the lead acid battery (around 20 to 30 pounds - original marketing stuff says the lithium battery saves 35 pounds), and onboard battery charger and plug in wiring (perhaps 15 pounds). Getting close to a 400 pound weight difference for same level of options. That's a lot to lug around and why the EPA gives the PHEV lower mpg in hybrid mode.
 

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Another thing to consider is KIA's dealership commitments to BEV. Most dealers haven't yet warmed up to PHEV's since they are expected to need few ICE repairs or service due to the battery running pure EV in warm weather for the daily commutes. Dealers want frequent service visits it gets customers into showrooms while they wait for service that dealers make money on. A BEV is a real problem they have fewer vibrating parts don't need oil changes and have less wear and tear compared to an ICE. Tesla's business model may well prevail. No dealerships and service when needed done by mobile vans ( Geek squad type home or office visit). Major repairs done in much more sophisticated service centers about 1 to 2 hours drive away either by towing in the disabled car or the owner driving it in and returning with a loaner car. Dealers don't like this and in New Mexico the Dealers have prevented the sale of Tesla cars.
I'm uncertain if buying a BEV Kia from a Dealer ( the only way allowed) will come with any enthusiasm by the dealer to provide good service and I'd expect a bid to have you switch to an ICE where they really make money.We have a Kia PHEV so they tolerate us since it needs $100 oil changes whether the ICE engine fired up or not.
Next Kia may not want to lose the investment it made in ICE production so will make very few BEV's available
 

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Interesting theory. I certainly see the logic in it. The first dealer I talked to even said he, "couldn't get a PHEV". I wonder why?
 

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Next Kia may not want to lose the investment it made in ICE production so will make very few BEV's available
In my book, Kia will produce the Niro EV on order demand only. (not as a mass production).. Becoming a rare car, "You want one?, order one now and you'll get it in 3-4 months.!"...
 

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I said "over 500 miles", not "exactly 500 miles". As you know, there are myriad variables when it comes to mileage. I didn't want to say 600 miles and have someone cry that they ran out of gas/battery on their trip up the Rocky Mountains at 80 mph in the dead of winter. ;)

Sooo true and GOOD point! :)
 

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Well,
It seems dealers don't want to sell BEV's. Often manufacturers lacking volume often sell them at a small loss which is made much worse with sales and dealer commissions. ICE cars are where the money is but occasionally PHEV's are tolerated. New Jersey (and several other states ) bans the sale of any car unless via dealerships so the dealers can get a hefty commission (ICE cars come with mucho commission). If you want a BEV Tesla is the only true player in town. When Tesla's compete in the KIA BEV's price range few will choose the KIA route with its unpleasant encounter with commissioned sales people working money from the buyers pocket to their own pockets. Kia buyers don't get home or office service and often wait hours during dealership service all the time listening to salespeople extracting money from the new car buyers.
Kia doesn't own the dealers so if your dealer doesn't care to do much after the sale KIA has diminished leverage to correct matters.
 

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According to a 2017 Car Max survey of hybrid & EV owners, the majority (26%) live on the west coast. The majority of owners (35%) plan on keeping their vehicle no longer than three years. That make sense since approximately 80 percent of EV owners lease their vehicles. Keep in mind if you lease an EV and qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit, it goes to the dealership not you. The breakdown of owners is 64% own EV's & 36% own hybrids/plug-ins with 64% using a Level 2 240V charger to charge their vehicle. For many EV owners the vehicle is often their second car and for many PHEV owners the car is often their primary vehicle. It'll be interesting to see how the trends change as battery technology continues to evolve.
 

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That is really interesting. Is that( 2017) the latest survey from CarMax?
 
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