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Discussion Starter #1
Today we drove our favorite alpine loop. 47mi with about 4000 ft elevation change.

Total miles 47
Gas range reduction 468 to 462 (net 6 used)
Battery range reduction 26 to 0
Total power used for recharge after trip measured at 8.9 KWHr
Trip history stats 47 miles, 16.7 mpg

Observations

6 gas miles plus 28 EV miles does not equal 47. (it's 34)

Recharge power of 8.9 x 95% (assumed converter efficiency) - 8.4 KW hrs. Consistent with 8.9 Max capacity and consistent with the MCU keeping a 0.5 KWhr reserve in HEV mode.

something is buggy with the trip history stats. (Kia engineering take note)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Today we drove our favorite alpine loop. 47mi with about 4000 ft elevation change.

Total miles 47
Gas range reduction 468 to 462 (net 6 used)
Battery range reduction 26 to 0
Total power used for recharge after trip measured at 8.9 KWHr
Trip history stats 47 miles, 16.7 mpg

Observations

6 gas miles plus 28 EV miles does not equal 47. (it's 34)

Recharge power of 8.9 x 95% (assumed converter efficiency) - 8.4 KW hrs. Consistent with 8.9 Max capacity and consistent with the MCU keeping a 0.5 KWhr reserve in HEV mode.

something is buggy with the trip history stats. (Kia engineering take note)
Did I really get 47 total - 6 gas = 41 miles on the battery?
 

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Did I really get 47 total - 6 gas = 41 miles on the battery?
Well assuming you started and stopped in the same place you had 4000ft going up and then 4000ft back down. Probably a lot of coasting / regenerative braking on the way down.

In other words, no you probably didn't get 41 miles on the battery. A significant fraction of your miles were likely gravity powered. :D

I haven't done a serious hill climb in my PHEV yet, but I have definitely exceeded the estimated 26 miles on battery alone. At low speeds with some opportunity to coast you can go pretty far.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well assuming you started and stopped in the same place you had 4000ft going up and then 4000ft back down. Probably a lot of coasting / regenerative braking on the way down.

In other words, no you probably didn't get 41 miles on the battery. A significant fraction of your miles were likely gravity powered. :D

I haven't done a serious hill climb in my PHEV yet, but I have definitely exceeded the estimated 26 miles on battery alone. At low speeds with some opportunity to coast you can go pretty far.
Yes, I believe you are correct. The ICE started as I neared the top of the mountain thus effectively recharging the battery on the down side of the mountain.

I now have a meter on the plug so I will know precisely how much energy I put into the car. I'm going to monitor energy in and miles driven over the next few weeks. As long as the ICE doesn't kick in, I will get a precise reading on what the miles/KWhr actually is.
 

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Yes, I believe you are correct. The ICE started as I neared the top of the mountain thus effectively recharging the battery on the down side of the mountain.

I now have a meter on the plug so I will know precisely how much energy I put into the car. I'm going to monitor energy in and miles driven over the next few weeks. As long as the ICE doesn't kick in, I will get a precise reading on what the miles/KWhr actually is.
I'd bet heavily that the ICE barely ran at all on the run down the mountain. Unless your're in sport mode or if you need cabin heat the ICE should be off if you're coasting. I've actually seen the battery range increase after a long coast.

As to the energy you put in the car, the battery capacity is listed at 8.9kWh. I've charged at public chargers a few times and have added a maximum of 8.3kWh. My guess is you'll measure about that plus a little bit for losses in the charger. I'd guess the charger is >90% efficient, but I'm eager to see what you find. :nerd:
 

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This sounds quite improbable. I would guess the car underestimated the initial gas range and/or overestimated the gas range at the end. 6 miles on gas at 16.7 mpg = 0.36 gallon used = equivalent of about 15 miles of gas driving.
 

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A couple months ago I did a 15 mile loop with steep elevation gain and loss of 2,000 feet. 25 mph whole time. I was astonished that the range remaining was exactly the same after finishing. Impossible from a physics standpoint of course. Only time I've ever maxed the battery gauge on the hybrid.
 

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Its not that hard...you went 47 miles and used .36 gallons of gasoline for a miles per gallon of 130.55555.

Thats fantastic. Dont over-analize it and ruin your perception.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Yes, I believe you are correct. The ICE started as I neared the top of the mountain thus effectively recharging the battery on the down side of the mountain.

I now have a meter on the plug so I will know precisely how much energy I put into the car. I'm going to monitor energy in and miles driven over the next few weeks. As long as the ICE doesn't kick in, I will get a precise reading on what the miles/KWhr actually is.
first actual data

21 ev miles, 6.5 Kwhrs, = 3.23 mi / kwhr

Epa sticker.

32 kWh / 100 miles = 1 kWh / 3.125 mi

Looks like epa number includes charger efficiency!
 

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something is buggy with the trip history stats. (Kia engineering take note)
Something is buggy but it's not Kia. All cars have a 'miles remaining' or 'distance to empty' estimate these days regardless of whether it's gas or electric. That is NOT miles traveled when you take estimate 1 - estimate 2. It's merely the computer's estimate of how many miles you have left until empty based on your driving habits in the last few miles. Forget EV for a bit. If you have a gas car and it says 400 miles DTE if you all of a sudden start driving very aggressively stop/start hard acceleration/deceleration for a couple miles you might drop 50 miles in a 2 mile range off the estimated DTE and end up at 350. The MPG gives it away. You got 16.7 MPG which is the efficiency when the gas was running. That was probably going uphill near the top once your battery was drained. Extremely low but quite expected. But then you coasted most of the way down. Maybe the engine came on part of the time or maybe not but by the time you got to the end your last several miles had been very low consumption so the computer was estimating high on miles remaining. Sure you probably had that many miles left to empty....if you drove down hill the next 300 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Something is buggy but it's not Kia. All cars have a 'miles remaining' or 'distance to empty' estimate these days regardless of whether it's gas or electric. That is NOT miles traveled when you take estimate 1 - estimate 2. It's merely the computer's estimate of how many miles you have left until empty based on your driving habits in the last few miles. Forget EV for a bit. If you have a gas car and it says 400 miles DTE if you all of a sudden start driving very aggressively stop/start hard acceleration/deceleration for a couple miles you might drop 50 miles in a 2 mile range off the estimated DTE and end up at 350. The MPG gives it away. You got 16.7 MPG which is the efficiency when the gas was running. That was probably going uphill near the top once your battery was drained. Extremely low but quite expected. But then you coasted most of the way down. Maybe the engine came on part of the time or maybe not but by the time you got to the end your last several miles had been very low consumption so the computer was estimating high on miles remaining. Sure you probably had that many miles left to empty....if you drove down hill the next 300 miles.
I wasn't too clear about what I thought was buggy in the Kia software. I am aware of everything you say but that is not the buggy problem.

The buggy problem is the following trip data from the UVO website. Notice the time markers for the shorter second trip are embedded in the time markers for the longer first trip. How does that happen?

2nd (store to home)

JUN 22 11:39 am to 11:47 am
0 hours, 7 minutes Personal Trip
No tags assigned.

1st (home, mountain, store)

JUN 22 09:53 am to 11:50 am
1 hour, 56 minutes Personal Trip
No tags assigned.
 

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Because when you hire the Audi engineer guy to engineer your cars, you use Audi's methods. The answer to the one trip within the other is simple. It's a feature and is in the owner's manual. It's the same way my A3 worked. The trip odometer measures a couple different things which I love. One of those is that it considers two kinds of trips. It uses a 4 hour gap as the measurement for a trip. So for instance if you run to a store, shut the car off, come back out go to another store, shut the car off, or you go on a trip and stop for gas or a rest and shut the car off then get back in. In these situations if the pause was under 4 hours it still considers it all part of a big trip. So it tracks the individual small trips but will also track the larger trip as being a series of events which includes some downtime. I really like that feature frankly.

So you have the last leg of the trip recorded, but then also the much larger trip is recorded as a single event.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Because when you hire the Audi engineer guy to engineer your cars, you use Audi's methods. The answer to the one trip within the other is simple. It's a feature and is in the owner's manual. It's the same way my A3 worked. The trip odometer measures a couple different things which I love. One of those is that it considers two kinds of trips. It uses a 4 hour gap as the measurement for a trip. So for instance if you run to a store, shut the car off, come back out go to another store, shut the car off, or you go on a trip and stop for gas or a rest and shut the car off then get back in. In these situations if the pause was under 4 hours it still considers it all part of a big trip. So it tracks the individual small trips but will also track the larger trip as being a series of events which includes some downtime. I really like that feature frankly.

So you have the last leg of the trip recorded, but then also the much larger trip is recorded as a single event.
Very interesting. Thank you for the info.

Assuming your explaination, why don't the two trips end at the same time?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
58 mpg

Today I travelled 160miles freeway at 65-75mph and 10miles city. The first 24 on battery. When the car switched from EV to HEV mode I reset the mpg computer. Computer says the balance 126miles, at 58 mpg.

How accurate is the computer mpg calculations?
 

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How accurate is the computer mpg calculations?
I'd call the display a mpg estimate.

In my experience so far in the hybrid, the estimate is 3 mpg optimistic compared with the calculated mpg after a fill up (I top off so my calculation is very accurate - but I don't adjust for odometer error). That is pretty consistent, but it was 6 mpg optimistic once, and less than 1 mpg optimistic once. So 3 mpg under the display mpg is probably close.

58 mpg (or a possibly adjusted 55 mpg) is really excellent but super anecdotal over 136 miles. I've gotten 58 mpg over 700 miles in my HEV (no plug in energy used), but even that I consider anecdotal. I'm expecting my annual in four seasons or lifetime mpg to come in about 52 mpg, a PHEV should be significantly less. You would have to not plug in for several fill ups to get a handle on non-plug in efficiency. Or just enjoy the 70 plus mpg you will be getting with ignored electric cost!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
1600 mile trip

I just finished a 1600 mile trip over two days. A few observations.

I slept a few night hours at a rest stop (avoid a hotel bill). I was thinking of turning on the AC in EV mode (20+ miles battery range) and just let it run while I slept. The outside air was mid 70s and humid with insects. I was afraid to since I didn't want to have a problem 900 miles from home . I'm going to test the idea soon. Anyone try this.

I get computer mpg between 45 and 60 depending on mph (65 to 75). The air resistance is proportional to the ratio of the squares or 65x65/75x75 =0.75 which also = 45/60. Hum. Makes sense.

I really like the smart cruise control. If i pull up behind a slower car I can decide to just stay there or signal left and the Niro automatically accelerates to the preset speed and I pass. Neat.

I'm really liking this car.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I just finished a 1600 mile trip over two days. A few observations.

I slept a few night hours at a rest stop (avoid a hotel bill). I was thinking of turning on the AC in EV mode (20+ miles battery range) and just let it run while I slept. The outside air was mid 70s and humid with insects. I was afraid to since I didn't want to have a problem 900 miles from home . I'm going to test the idea soon. Anyone try this.

I get computer mpg between 45 and 60 depending on mph (65 to 75). The air resistance is proportional to the ratio of the squares or 65x65/75x75 =0.75 which also = 45/60. Hum. Makes sense.

I really like the smart cruise control. If i pull up behind a slower car I can decide to just stay there or signal left and the Niro automatically accelerates to the preset speed and I pass. Neat.

I'm really liking this car.
Correcti6on

A 45 to 60 mpg range correlates to a 75 to 55 mph range.
 
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