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Hi

I am from Vancouver Canada, currently here has two models available for 10k rebate, Kona EV or Niro EV ex.
- and I personally prefer E-Niro as most of discussions found it has more space in terms of my 4-person family seems get batter benefit, of cause we will sacrifice some cool features from Kona such as most of safety Hi-Tech stuff and particularly two terms "heat pump" and "battery heating system". as my initial thought they are just kind of "nice to have"
-my initially thought that's not a big deal maybe just loss some efficiency from milage range and battery charging time. But dig into it via some discussion or youtube (Thanks for a guy who I think from Norway do a lots of good tube about both Kona and Niro EV), it seems one feature is so cool also becoming quite necessory to me which is call "Utility mode" will let the driver is able to comping inside the car. (the youtuber shows some practical experience with this)
- Well the question to me a) is "utility mode" have to have "heat pump" available. if not necessary, how different between with and without it?
-likewise, from my knowledge the "Battery heating System" is matter to the efficiency of charging battery and mileage range, particularly important to the cold area like Canada. how different between with and without it
- Anyone know "2019 Niro EV ex" model will equipped with "Utility mode"? unfortunally, tried asking a few dealers here none of them say this model is available to be tested until you order and arrived.

Thanks
Eric
 

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I'm not too far south from you, and I would consider the heat pump as more than a nice to have. It would likely offer a significant improvement in range during our cool spring and fall/early winter temps. And since it appears battery conditioning goes along with the HP, that makes the pair worth while.

However, I'm not familiar with this utility mode. While I admit I haven't poured over the e-Niro specs, I don't recall seeing it mentioned. I wonder if it's another little tidbit we don't get in the US that is available elsewhere. Kind of like the Homelink rear view mirror.

I just did a quick search and found some info on Utility Mode. It appears this is simply a mode that allows the HVAC to continue running with the car itself turned off. However, you can't exit the car and lock the door with it on. It's only to maintain the comfort level for passengers that remain in the car while parked. The car itself uses so little energy while not moving, even with the A/C running, I can't see the overall benefit. You can't use it to say keep the car cool with animals left inside (which I am highly against anyway). If you're leaving passengers in the car, just leave it in the On position. Unless you fear the passengers will do something unauthorized with the car. In which case I wouldn't leave them in the car anyway! :)

Does it require the Heat Pump or Battery heating? I can't say, as I couldn't find anything about it on the Kia web site. I did find something on Green Car Reports that says the Utility Mode also enables a 110VAC plug down where the spare tire would be. So it apparently has some other functionality.
 

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So the heat pump is a $1,000 option in the States and would assume the same to be true in Canada. If you are keeping your car long term, I would get it, the energy savings would likely make it a zero cost over ten years. As I understand it, even if your nights get down to 50 degrees (Fahrenheit), there is a significant energy savings.

I think electric costs are low in BC so the financial math may not work out. But yes, camping in the car will be far more efficient with one in hot or cold overnights. And of course if you have a long trip, the extra range will save you hours of charging.

Is the heat pump option readily available in BC? On the HEV Niro/Ioniq, there was a CCP package available in colder parts of Canada but I wasn't sure it was easy to get in BC.
 

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Hi @elawcn and welcome to the Forum.


For the Canadian SX Touring trim level on the EV model is the only one that has the "heat pump" and the "Battery heating system" The EX trim does not. The "Heat Pump" is like a house "heat pump" and is not efficient below the -10c (canadian celcius) mark. radiators are the after -10 heating. For the Battery heating system, you will be able to heat the cabin with the UVO app on your cell phone. kind of a cool gadget!

Personnaly, i would go for the EV SX trim level because the EV EX trim level has been "stripped" out of alot of big options too get the matching price of 45k for the federal 5000$ rebate. No heating seats and steering wheel, normal cruise instead of the adaptative cruise, no tech package, and much more.


For the Charging, 59h with a level 1 (120v) charger that comes with the car. A 9h on a Level 2 charger (240v) and on a Level 3 BRCC fast charger, 1.15h on a 50kwh charger for a 80% charge.

it's a really nice car too drive, i was able too have it for a week-end in June! did over 1700km on it in 3 days all electric with a 465km per charge (385km is the brochure mark).

** The Kona is too small for a 4 passenger ride, you will have alot of space and comfort in the Niro!
 

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For the Charging, 59h with a level 1 (120v) charger that comes with the car. A 29h on a Level 2 charger (240v) and on a Level 3 BRCC fast charger, 1.15h on a 50kwh charger for a 80% charge.
Where are you getting 29 hours to charge the Niro EV on Level 2? The reports I've read say 9 hours 35 minutes with a 7.2 kW charger (32 amp). That's straight from the Kia media web site for the 2019 Niro EV. The 59 hours for Level 1 is accurate.
 

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In the Southeast and Western parts of the U.S., I would pass on the heat pump option, but in New England and Canada, I would think it is an essential option. You'll use MUCH less energy to heat the cabin which can be a godsend if you need to stretch your range as much as possible. Plus it will probably increase your resale value in the Canadian market.
 

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In the Southeast and Western parts of the U.S., I would pass on the heat pump option, but in New England and Canada, I would think it is an essential option. You'll use MUCH less energy to heat the cabin which can be a godsend if you need to stretch your range as much as possible. Plus it will probably increase your resale value in the Canadian market.
For the West, it depends on how far north or south you are. But overall I think I'd take the heat pump regardless of location. The reason is that even in A/C mode the heat pump will use a little less power than a standard A/C unit. So Southern CA or Texas would still see a range benefit with the heat pump. Besides, Dallas/Fort Worth typically gets more snow than we do in Seattle, so they see cold temps as well. :D
 

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For the West, it depends on how far north or south you are. But overall I think I'd take the heat pump regardless of location. The reason is that even in A/C mode the heat pump will use a little less power than a standard A/C unit. So Southern CA or Texas would still see a range benefit with the heat pump. Besides, Dallas/Fort Worth typically gets more snow than we do in Seattle, so they see cold temps as well. :D
Yeah, you are right. Honestly, instead of an option, KIA should have included it as standard equipment since the beneficial effects will be noticed in any climate.
 

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Yeah, you are right. Honestly, instead of an option, KIA should have included it as standard equipment since the beneficial effects will be noticed in any climate.
Well, VW does the same thing with the E-Golf. The heat pump is only on the top trim level. I was giving one of those serious thought, but 120 mile range was just too little for me. Throw in winter weather and crossing a mountain pass, the real world range would likely be about 70-80 miles, which isn't enough to travel between the two areas I will need to reach after I retire.
 

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Where are you getting 29 hours to charge the Niro EV on Level 2? The reports I've read say 9 hours 35 minutes with a 7.2 kW charger (32 amp).
You are damm right Mate, 9h, not 29.!!! LOL my bad! :|and dont ask me where i got this number! :laugh:
 

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I have the Canadian SX version since April. I typically have the climate control set to 20.5C. Yesterday at 4p we had 30C air temp and the A/C was working hard to cool down the car using about 1.7kW. After about 10 min driving on the highway the energy usage of the A/C dropped to 1.2kW. I was doing about 120 km/h so this adds about 1 kWh/100km energy consumption. Which is about 30km range on the full battery. Pretty good to me!

I am still not clear how the heat pump works. Any pointers to a good explanation on this technology?
 

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I have the Canadian SX version since April. I typically have the climate control set to 20.5C. Yesterday at 4p we had 30C air temp and the A/C was working hard to cool down the car using about 1.7kW. After about 10 min driving on the highway the energy usage of the A/C dropped to 1.2kW. I was doing about 120 km/h so this adds about 1 kWh/100km energy consumption. Which is about 30km range on the full battery. Pretty good to me!

I am still not clear how the heat pump works. Any pointers to a good explanation on this technology?
Ohhh. April! one of the first in Canada to get one! congrats! ;)


For the heat pump, it's more in the winter time that you will benefit the effect of it. it's the same thing as an home heat-pump. the AC works directly on the electric motor and for the heat, the pump will generate some hot air and send it into the cabin. But take note that like home heat-pump, below -10c, it becomes useless and from there, the heat will be sent from a kind of electric radiator in the car.


For the Battery heating system, it is the same as the heat pump, but it lets you pre-heat the cabin when charging the car.!
 

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I am still not clear how the heat pump works. Any pointers to a good explanation on this technology?
A heat pump is basically an air conditioning unit run in reverse. Instead of extracting heat from the interior and replacing it with cooler air, it pulls heat out of the exterior and brings it inside. That's why they lose efficiency at lower external temps. The usual limit for a heat pump to provide a useful temp improvement inside is about 30F. Below that there just isn't enough latent heat outside to extract enough to bring it inside. So you still need resistance heating for the interior on the colder days. But if there's enough heat outside to extract, a heat pump is usually anywhere between 40-80% more efficient than resistance heating. That translates into better EV range. :D
 

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Ohhh. April! one of the first in Canada to get one! congrats! ;)
The dealer told me I was the second owner in BC...
For the heat pump, it's more in the winter time that you will benefit the effect of it. it's the same thing as an home heat-pump. the AC works directly on the electric motor and for the heat, the pump will generate some hot air and send it into the cabin. But take note that like home heat-pump, below -10c, it becomes useless and from there, the heat will be sent from a kind of electric radiator in the car.
Thanks for clarifying.
For the Battery heating system, it is the same as the heat pump, but it lets you pre-heat the cabin when charging the car.!
My understand is that pre-heating the cabin while being on external power uses some of the external power to drive the heat pump or radiator instead of draining the battery. Is that what they mean with ‘battery heating system’?
 

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Battery heating is not the same as cabin heating. To pre-heat the cabin, the HVAC system is engaged, and yes that uses traction battery power. If the car is plugged in, then external power should be used. Battery heating is solely to warm the cells for more optimum performance, both during driving and while charging. Batteries also have some sort of cooling system. Usually liquid cooled, but some cars use passive cooling, such as the Leaf. And if you're in a hot climate, passive cooling is not ideal.
 

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Then there is no battery heating in the Niro. As I understand it, under some conditions, the HVAC controls will be overridden by BMS to either heat or cool the battery in addition to the simple circulation fans.
 

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From what a dealer told me, all Niro EVs shipped to my state (WA) are equipped with the cold weather package. Now cold here is usually only into the 40F range, although we do get a little below freezing on occasion. But I've lived here all my life (almost 65 years now) and it's extremely rare for us to hit single digit temps. I think a heat pump is absolutely the way to go on any car that isn't located in the southern US states.
 

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The battery heater comes with the previously-mentioned optional heat pump - they're a "cold weather" package.
The heat pump is for interior climate control. Do you know for sure that it also plumbs the liquid coolant system for the EV battery? I Would think there would be enough heating from battery discharge (or charging) to sufficiently warm the battery and that cooling is more of a concern.
 
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