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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I did not intend on letting the battery get so low, but the range meter over estimated! I went from about 48% down to 2% on a 102 mile drive in eco, no more than 60mph. Immediately plugged into my home 40 amp level 2 charger. Over about 9 hours, the charger said it put in 64KW! I know the battery is 64KW and so perhaps a little lost to inefficiency?
My confusion is that after it fully charged up, the Niro read out for battery level was 92%. So is the readout wrong or did the car not get all of the 64KW that the charger sent? Notable that the charge was set to go to 100% on the preset in the Niro just this time since I wanted to see how much it would take. Normally just charge to 80%.
****
UPDATE!
i washed and then drove it to dry out the wheels/brakes, down to a readout of 88%. Then plugged it in again. This time it fully charged to a readout if 100% in about 1:15 and 9.3kw.
so I would guess there is inefficiency with charging so that the charger says one number, but in reality the car takes a little less than that?
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Yes, there are losses from charging. I didn't think it would be that high, but perhaps being at such a low SoC had something to do with it.
 

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Didn't do all of the math, but remember that the true capacity of the battery is 67.1 kWh. The USABLE capacity (that is, what is available to us users) is 64 kWh. The EVSE may not "know" the difference. The charging losses are about 5%, according to what I've seen.
 

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Davidtm is correct. There are losses due to inefficiencies of charging and the EVSE being used. Some are more efficient than others and the state of charge of the car can also affect the charge rate. If you have a less efficient EVSE and you have a very low state of charge it will take a lot more than 64kWh to get to 100% and as stated, the actual battery capacity is more than 64kWh, although this is accounted for in the SoC display of the car.
If you want to know more information about the battery SoH and actual SoC, then there are 2 options:
1) Torque Pro app and a Bluetooth OBD2 adapter:
or a more plug and play...
2) Dedicated module and Bluetooth OBD2 adapter:
 
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So I actually have the exact same JuiceBox charger as the OP, and have seen the exact same issue with my Niro EV. I've used the JuiceBox with several other EVs over the years and I've also written some custom software to control it and pull data from it, so I've learned a lot of it's nuances over the years.

One of the "features" of the JuiceBox is being able to control how much charge is delivered to your car. For example if you have an EV like the LEAF which doesn't allow you to specify charging should stop at 80%, you can do this via the JuiceBox instead. Let's say you get home at 20%, plug in and you want the JuiceBox to charge to your car to 80%: The JuiceBox asks you to set what charge you plugged in at, and then asks you what charge to stop at. Remember that the HJuiceBox cannot communicate with your car in any way, so it's using these values to "estimate" how much energy to deliver.

When you set up the JuiceBox you had to tell it what EV you were setting up. When you selected the Niro EV you got a screen that looks like this:

6531


Notice that it has fields for "Battery capacity" and "EVSE Efficiency"? So when you set up the car it comes pre-populated with data about the car: That it has a 64 kWh battery and the charging system is about 98% efficient.

Now that it knows this, when you plug in you get a screen like this:

6532


See the 20 selected on the left, and the 80 selected on the right? Here I've told it that I "plugged in" with 20% and that I want to charge "up to 80%"

So what happens here is that since the JuiceBox can't actually communicate with the vehicle to know once it hits 80% it has to do the math to calculate how much energy is needed to get to 80%.

So if you plugged in with 20%, and you only want to go to 80%, then that means we need to add 80-20=60%. Since we need to add 60% of a 64 kWh battery that means we need to add 60% of 64 kWh = 38.4 kWh. Then it factors in the 98% efficiency and pulls 39.18 kWh from the wall. Within the app however it only displays 38.4. The amount displayed in the app always factors in the 98%, but it actually pulls 39.18 from the wall.

Now what happened in your case is you left it at "0%" on the left and "100%" on the right. What this told the JuiceBox is that you wanted to add 100% of 64 kWh, which is 64 kWh: so it stopped charging after it delivered 64kWh. The thing about the Niro is it actually has a slightly larger than 64kWh battery pack. (This has been confirmed by multiple people). So even though it's officially rated at 64kWh they often have over 70 kWh usable capacity when brand new. Some speculate Kia does this so that when the pack degrades over the first year or so it never drops below the "rated" capacity, but who knows.

So to sum it up: it's not due to efficiency loss. That's already being factored in by the JuiceBox. When I charge my LEAF I actually see the opposite: When the Juicebox delivers 60% to the LEAF it actally adds more like 70% according to the car. That's because Nissan claims a 62 kWh battery but if you check LeafSpy you'll often see only 57-58 kWh is usable, especially after you've put some miles on the car and the battery degrades a bit. If I go into the JuiceBox and "edit" the capacity of my LEAF and set it to the same 57 kWh that LeafSpy says it holds, then suddenly the percentages of the JuiceBox match up perfectly with the percentage reported by the car.

So in your case the fix is to go in and edit that field. Where is says the capacity is "64.0 kWh" set that to what your actual capacity is. Since adding 64 kWh to your battery took you from 2% to 92%, that means it added 90%. That puts your actual usable capacity at 71 kWh. (My Niro is brand new and has about 73 kWh usable energy)

Further evidence of this can be seen when planning routes with "A better route planner" (ABRP). If ABRP tells me I need to charge to 75%, I've found I only need to actually charge to 65% because there's an "extra 10%" of usable capacity available in the battery. With my LEAF I have to charge a little beyond what ABRP suggests, but with the Niro I can easily cut 10% off what it says and still make it to the next charger with energy to spare. (While driving 5-7 mph over the speed limit too)

Bottom line: The Niro EV actually has a slightly bigger battery than advertised (Which is awesome for road trips) so you just need to adjust the capacity on the JuiceBox to reflect that.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I actually have the exact same JuiceBox charger as the OP, and have seen the exact same issue with my Niro EV. I've used the JuiceBox with several other EVs over the years and I've also written some custom software to control it and pull data from it, so I've learned a lot of it's nuances over the years.

One of the "features" of the JuiceBox is being able to control how much charge is delivered to your car. For example if you have an EV like the LEAF which doesn't allow you to specify charging should stop at 80%, you can do this via the JuiceBox instead. Let's say you get home at 20%, plug in and you want the JuiceBox to charge to your car to 80%: The JuiceBox asks you to set what charge you plugged in at, and then asks you what charge to stop at. Remember that the HJuiceBox cannot communicate with your car in any way, so it's using these values to "estimate" how much energy to deliver.

When you set up the JuiceBox you had to tell it what EV you were setting up. When you selected the Niro EV you got a screen that looks like this:

View attachment 6531

Notice that it has fields for "Battery capacity" and "EVSE Efficiency"? So when you set up the car it comes pre-populated with data about the car: That it has a 64 kWh battery and the charging system is about 98% efficient.

Now that it knows this, when you plug in you get a screen like this:

View attachment 6532

See the 20 selected on the left, and the 80 selected on the right? Here I've told it that I "plugged in" with 20% and that I want to charge "up to 80%"

So what happens here is that since the JuiceBox can't actually communicate with the vehicle to know once it hits 80% it has to do the math to calculate how much energy is needed to get to 80%.

So if you plugged in with 20%, and you only want to go to 80%, then that means we need to add 80-20=60%. Since we need to add 60% of a 64 kWh battery that means we need to add 60% of 64 kWh = 38.4 kWh. Then it factors in the 98% efficiency and pulls 39.18 kWh from the wall. Within the app however it only displays 38.4. The amount displayed in the app always factors in the 98%, but it actually pulls 39.18 from the wall.

Now what happened in your case is you left it at "0%" on the left and "100%" on the right. What this told the JuiceBox is that you wanted to add 100% of 64 kWh, which is 64 kWh: so it stopped charging after it delivered 64kWh. The thing about the Niro is it actually has a slightly larger than 64kWh battery pack. (This has been confirmed by multiple people). So even though it's officially rated at 64kWh they often have over 70 kWh usable capacity when brand new. Some speculate Kia does this so that when the pack degrades over the first year or so it never drops below the "rated" capacity, but who knows.

So to sum it up: it's not due to efficiency loss. That's already being factored in by the JuiceBox. When I charge my LEAF I actually see the opposite: When the Juicebox delivers 60% to the LEAF it actally adds more like 70% according to the car. That's because Nissan claims a 62 kWh battery but if you check LeafSpy you'll often see only 57-58 kWh is usable, especially after you've put some miles on the car and the battery degrades a bit. If I go into the JuiceBox and "edit" the capacity of my LEAF and set it to the same 57 kWh that LeafSpy says it holds, then suddenly the percentages of the JuiceBox match up perfectly with the percentage reported by the car.

So in your case the fix is to go in and edit that field. Where is says the capacity is "64.0 kWh" set that to what your actual capacity is. Since adding 64 kWh to your battery took you from 2% to 92%, that means it added 90%. That puts your actual usable capacity at 71 kWh. (My Niro is brand new and has about 73 kWh usable energy)

Further evidence of this can be seen when planning routes with "A better route planner" (ABRP). If ABRP tells me I need to charge to 75%, I've found I only need to actually charge to 65% because there's an "extra 10%" of usable capacity available in the battery. With my LEAF I have to charge a little beyond what ABRP suggests, but with the Niro I can easily cut 10% off what it says and still make it to the next charger with energy to spare. (While driving 5-7 mph over the speed limit too)

Bottom line: The Niro EV actually has a slightly bigger battery than advertised (Which is awesome for road trips) so you just need to adjust the capacity on the JuiceBox to reflect that.
Thank you so much! That is a lot of detail and time you provided so we understand the situation more regarding battery capacity and charging. I think it is really good business of KIA to under-promise and over-deliver on the battery. I had thought the true size was 68 kw, but you suggest it is several over that. Either way I’ve found it to have great range and am always happy with that, especially on the longer trips.
 

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I think it is really good business of KIA to under-promise and over-deliver on the battery.
I agree 100%. I've owned three different LEAFs over the years: The 24 kWh, the 30 kWh, and the 62 kWh models... And not one of them ever came close to having the advertised capacity, even when brand new off the lot. (One of the many reasons I decided to jump to the Niro from the LEAF)

It's especilly smart on Kia's part because batteries experience their biggest capacity drop in the first year. Most EVs lose 5+% in the first year and then the degradation slows down / tapers off after that. The LEAF tended to lose close to 10% the first year based on my experience of the 3 models I owned. So by over-building the battery by 10% that ensures that people are still getting the promised 64 kWh for the first few years of ownership.
 
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