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Another factor in battery longevity is number of charging cycles. Right now I plug my car in after every days use whether I have 5 or 20 miles of range left. Should I be topping off the 20 mile range if I don’t think I’m going to need it the next day? Any thoughts?
Go ahead and top it off! You are only charging to 80% capacity as there is a large software maintained capacity buffer. The only folks who should be concerned are BEV owners - and the first Niro BEV has still not been sold in the US.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Another factor in battery longevity is number of charging cycles. Right now I plug my car in after every days use whether I have 5 or 20 miles of range left. Should I be topping off the 20 mile range if I don’t think I’m going to need it the next day? Any thoughts?
I usually skip charging mine if I think I'm not likely to use up the EV range the next day. In my world, that often means that I don't put it on charge until gets below about 12 miles of range. Everything I've read suggests that the battery is happier with a moderate level of charge. That doesn't mean I'm averse to charging to max range or depleting to zero range, just that when given the option, I try to keep it somewhere in the middle.
 

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On the PHEV, you are in the middle of the battery capacity when you have used all the EV miles.

Still, more charging cycles is directly related to loss of capacity so you are doing the right thing although with a very minor effect.
 

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I have to add that I suspect that there is precious little difference in battery life between level 1 or 2 charging nor levels used or charged to. From a study of pure EV's, I think enemy #1 is heat. Leafs driven in hot climates loose battery life considerably faster than those driven in cooler areas. Charging in the coolest part of the night or at least with a cool interior in the shade likely trumps other precautions.

I don't care here in winter but in the heat of summer, I'll level 1 charge to be full a little after dawn and avoid charging with a hot interior.
 

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On the PHEV, you are in the middle of the battery capacity when you have used all the EV miles.
So if i really do understand what you are saying,, If i drive my 42km (26 miles) on my PHEV, the battery is at half capacity/charged ?.. So, the battery of a PHEV is what? 50% HEV and 50% EV.. Is that it ??


What is the total capacity ? 24.7 Ah ?
 

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Useable capacity is 26 miles. After that you are in hybrid mode.
That i know, i drive one!...


It's the: ...are in the middle of the battery capacity... that i have pointed out.! How can you tell that when i am out of EV miles, that i am in the "middle of" !?
 

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Many houses (including mine) were built pre-3 prong outlet. i.e. old crap. Lots of times (such as in my house and in my garage) 3 prong outlets got installed at some point but are not actually wired with that ground wire. This old wiring heats up easily, tends to be shoddy, and is straight up a fire hazard on anything drawing even 12 amps regardless of what amperage the circuit is. Just because someone replaced the fuse box at some point and put a breaker panel in and there's a 30 amp breaker, doesn't mean the wiring supports that. Our garage had a two prong outlet wiring with a 3 prong outlet (obviously 3rd prong/ground not hooked up) with a 6 outlet plugin stuck into that outlet. i.e. up to 6 different devices plugged into one incorrectly wired outlet. Which reminds me....yeah...people are way more likely to hook a power strip up to the level 1 outlet and run half a dozen things off the same outlet where one of those things is the level 1 charger. I can imagine a scenario where someone runs a 50 foot cheapo indoor extension cord out of the garage and uses the level 1 charger plugged into the car sitting in the driveway. That's not going to happen with a level 2 outlet.

So yes there is exactly ZERO logic that says the level 1 charger is not as good for your battery. Complete nonsense. It is, however almost certainly less of a fire hazard to use level 2 because yes there are fewer possible ways to be a complete idiot.
 

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Many houses (including mine) were built pre-3 prong outlet. i.e. old crap. Lots of times (such as in my house and in my garage) 3 prong outlets got installed at some point but are not actually wired with that ground wire. This old wiring heats up easily, tends to be shoddy, and is straight up a fire hazard on anything drawing even 12 amps regardless of what amperage the circuit is. Just because someone replaced the fuse box at some point and put a breaker panel in and there's a 30 amp breaker, doesn't mean the wiring supports that. Our garage had a two prong outlet wiring with a 3 prong outlet (obviously 3rd prong/ground not hooked up) with a 6 outlet plugin stuck into that outlet. i.e. up to 6 different devices plugged into one incorrectly wired outlet. Which reminds me....yeah...people are way more likely to hook a power strip up to the level 1 outlet and run half a dozen things off the same outlet where one of those things is the level 1 charger. I can imagine a scenario where someone runs a 50 foot cheapo indoor extension cord out of the garage and uses the level 1 charger plugged into the car sitting in the driveway. That's not going to happen with a level 2 outlet.

So yes there is exactly ZERO logic that says the level 1 charger is not as good for your battery. Complete nonsense. It is, however almost certainly less of a fire hazard to use level 2 because yes there are fewer possible ways to be a complete idiot.
yep, this could explain why Kia prefers L2 over L1.
 

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That i know, i drive one!...


It's the: ...are in the middle of the battery capacity... that i have pointed out.! How can you tell that when i am out of EV miles, that i am in the "middle of" !?
It's just that 0EV miles != 0% battery charge. It's actually equivalent to ~20% or so (I've seen mine as low as 14% when plugging in). So perhaps not "in the middle" but definitely not completely discharged.

TL;DR: Just charge however you like. The battery management system is designed to safely and effective charge the battery. The only caveat may be waiting a bit after driving on a very hot day to let the battery cool a bit. On the other hand, it would surprise me if the BMS didn't handle that too. The charger for my cordless drill monitors pack temperature and won't charge if it's too hot. No reason to think the Kia's BMS would be less sophisticated than a cheap Makita charger. :D
 

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It's just that 0EV miles != 0% battery charge. It's actually equivalent to ~20% or so (I've seen mine as low as 14% when plugging in). So perhaps not "in the middle" but definitely not completely discharged.
That was my point with my anwser.!

I have already wrote in another thread that the 100% of the battery system in the Niro PHEV display in the cluster, is kind of split: 75% PHEV and 25% HEV. (could be 80%/20% too)

When my EV range is at 0 miles or Km, the HEV kicks on like you say ~ 25 or 20%.. and the HEV system charges and recharges the 20-25%... This is the way i see it when i drive my PHEV, like yours, and others in this forum!

But, sometines, i think it's soo sad when some people talk's and respons about something with so much confidence, makes you look kind of ... n00b or dumb, BUT, they never drove one...:|


* btw, for the % left when the HEV kicks in, last saturday, was doing some highway driving, i got soo low... On HEV mode and no miles left in storage, i was at 6% and started too freak out a bit.! :eek:
 

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Why? were you out of gas too? Not owning the PHEV, I can only assume your display is showing 6% of EV miles left, not total battery capacity. None of the OEM displays shows real SOC.
 

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Why? were you out of gas too? Not owning the PHEV, I can only assume your display is showing 6% of EV miles left, not total battery capacity. None of the OEM displays shows real SOC.
Interesting thing about the PHEV.

If you run EV miles to 0 and the ICE starts as the car goes into hev mode, when you get home and plug it in to recharge the battery, SOC is typically shown to be 10-12%. 11% of 8.9 = ~ 1

Also, EPA sticker Spec says 3.3 miles/kwhr so 26/3.3=7.9 kwhr ev mode usable, leaving 8.9-7.9=1kwhr hev engage point.

I assume the car likes to target 1Kwhr remaining as the point to transition from ev to hev mode.

Of course, I think, as you do, that the car keeps a low and high reserve beyond these points to maximize battery life.
 

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Interesting thing about the PHEV.

If you run EV miles to 0 and the ICE starts as the car goes into hev mode, when you get home and plug it in to recharge the battery, SOC is typically shown to be 10-12%. 11% of 8.9 = ~ 1.
So, i'm not that crazy!. ;) When the HEV kicks in.. there is only 2 bars left.. I had one bar left (6%) on the display when i plugged in at home! The second bar appeared on 9%.. etc..etc..
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Interesting thing about the PHEV.

If you run EV miles to 0 and the ICE starts as the car goes into hev mode, when you get home and plug it in to recharge the battery, SOC is typically shown to be 10-12%. 11% of 8.9 = ~ 1

Also, EPA sticker Spec says 3.3 miles/kwhr so 26/3.3=7.9 kwhr ev mode usable, leaving 8.9-7.9=1kwhr hev engage point.

I assume the car likes to target 1Kwhr remaining as the point to transition from ev to hev mode.

Of course, I think, as you do, that the car keeps a low and high reserve beyond these points to maximize battery life.
I agree that when the PHEV is down to zero miles of EV range, SOC is reported as about 10%. Your math seems to make sense. One other thing to note is that the car needs to keep reserve in the traction battery not only for reasons of battery life, but also because that residual charge is what you will be counting on to start the ICE if you aren't able to plug in before the next time you need to start the car.
 

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So, i'm not that crazy!. ;) When the HEV kicks in.. there is only 2 bars left.. I had one bar left (6%) on the display when i plugged in at home! The second bar appeared on 9%.. etc..etc..
Ok, now I understand what you're talking about. The EV mileage indicator has little relation to the "fuel gauge" for the battery. Once the EV range drops to "0" and your are in regular HEV mode you can end up using more of the battery beyond the "0" point. This is confusing because the behavior is different from the regular gauge where the miles remaining and the bars remaining are more synchronized. Never thought about it before, since I jut looked at the miles remaining, but yeah, that's kind of messed up. It messes with the users expectations that the two gauges represent similar things.

Question for the HEV guys, does your car have a similar display?
 

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Question for the HEV guys, does your car have a similar display?
Has a charge (SOC) meter that on flattish roads (I live in Ohio) stays within two increments of "half" full about 80 percent of the time during warm weather. Range remaining number which for me is not a very useful number until it is less than 100 miles (it does not consider EV miles). A power meter analog style that shows whether battery is charging or discharging. And of course there is an optional hybrid display to show power flow. Finally there is an instant mpg gauge and an average mpg number display.
 
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