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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys I am a new Niro PHEV owner and I have a question for you. Does the PHEV come standard with a 3.3Kwh onboard charger?
I want to buy a Level 2 charger. If it is indeed a 3.3kwh onboard charger then I am thinking 3300 watts/240 volts = 13.75 amps maximum charging available at 240 volts. If so does it make sense to buy a Level 2 charger rated at more that 16 amps?
What type of Level 2 charger did you guys go with?. I am new to this and hope to learn from your experience
 

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Hey guys I am a new Niro PHEV owner and I have a question for you. Does the PHEV come standard with a 3.3Kwh onboard charger?
I want to buy a Level 2 charger. If it is indeed a 3.3kwh onboard charger then I am thinking 3300 watts/240 volts = 13.75 amps maximum charging available at 240 volts. If so does it make sense to buy a Level 2 charger rated at more that 16 amps?
What type of Level 2 charger did you guys go with?. I am new to this and hope to learn from your experience
I looked at a Level 2 charger for my PHEV, but decided against it as I normally charge overnight and so it doesn't really matter that it takes 7 hours to charge. Having said that, a 16A Level 2 charger is more than enough, but the question is future proofing. Other than cost there's no downside to getting a higher capacity Level 2 charger and it could come in handy if you end up purchasing a BEV Niro or similar. The e-Niro will charge in 9.5h at 220V, which is probably OK for most home charging situations.

I guess as with most of these questions, YMMV. :D
 

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Hey guys I am a new Niro PHEV owner and I have a question for you. Does the PHEV come standard with a 3.3Kwh onboard charger?
I want to buy a Level 2 charger. If it is indeed a 3.3kwh onboard charger then I am thinking 3300 watts/240 volts = 13.75 amps maximum charging available at 240 volts. If so does it make sense to buy a Level 2 charger rated at more that 16 amps?
What type of Level 2 charger did you guys go with?. I am new to this and hope to learn from your experience
I am using a level 1 now but I have a 6-20P (20A) plug ready for the niro 16A max l2 capability if I decide it's worth it in the future.

I would consider how likely you are to have a greater than 20a outlet in the future to plug into.
 

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I am using a level 1 now but I have a 6-20P (20A) plug ready for the niro 16A max l2 capability if I decide it's worth it in the future.

I would consider how likely you are to have a greater than 20a outlet in the future to plug into.
another perspective

A L2 16a charger will charge ~10miles per hour. Thus 10hrs overnight charges ~100 miles. If your daily mileage is less than 100miles, you will rarely need more than a 16a charger for home charging even with an EV.

On a trip you can use the EVs fast dc charger.
 

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You may be missing the point of a level 2 charger. It charges twice as fast at the SAME amperage. Many sources say that level 2 charging is also better for the battery.

In actual practice, I've found that a level 2 charger charges at almost 3 times as fast as a level 1 charger. I can't explain why. When I visit my daughter, I often use a level 2 and it really adds to the utility of the car. I thought over night was enough but return home thinking I need a level 2.

Something I hadn't thought of before buying the plug in is that it should be plugged in..... and fully charged occasionally. But, why wouldn't you?

In direct answer, however, the EV is the future of individual transportation. When I install a charger, it will be the biggest I and my electrical system can afford.
 

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You may be missing the point of a level 2 charger. It charges twice as fast at the SAME amperage. Many sources say that level 2 charging is also better for the battery.

In actual practice, I've found that a level 2 charger charges at almost 3 times as fast as a level 1 charger. I can't explain why.
The amperage is the same, but the voltage is double and so the power delivered is also double (13A x 120 V = 1560W vs 13.6A x 240V = 3264W). Plus there is an added efficiency to higher rate charging because the charger in the car has to convert the incoming AC to the ~360VDC required by the battery. Converting from 220VAC to 360VDC is more efficient than going from 120VAC.

I'm not convinced there's an appreciable difference between Level 1 and Level 2 when it comes to the health of the battery. Charging at a lower rate reduces battery heating, which in turns reduces the likelihood of chemical changes inside. Plus, the on-board charge controller is designed to maximize the life of the battery regardless of which charger the car is plugged into.
 

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Since the PHEV come standard with a 3.3Kwh onboard charger, i use a 240v 30amp home charger. I have never used my personnal 120v charger that came with the car. 2.5h time of charge at home and it's full.
 

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I'm using a Clipper Creek LCS-20. I'm very happy with it so far. Having a level 2 charger is great on weekends when I go someplace in the morning, and take another trip later in the day.
 

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The amperage is the same, but the voltage is double and so the power delivered is also double (13A x 120 V = 1560W vs 13.6A x 240V = 3264W). Plus there is an added efficiency to higher rate charging because the charger in the car has to convert the incoming AC to the ~360VDC required by the battery. Converting from 220VAC to 360VDC is more efficient than going from 120VAC.

I'm not convinced there's an appreciable difference between Level 1 and Level 2 when it comes to the health of the battery. Charging at a lower rate reduces battery heating, which in turns reduces the likelihood of chemical changes inside. Plus, the on-board charge controller is designed to maximize the life of the battery regardless of which charger the car is plugged into.
IIRC

L1 8,10,or 12a x 120V = 1440 W @12a
L2 16a x 240v = 3840 W

3840W/1440W =2.67

Charge time spec Ll/L2 = 6.5hr/2.5hr = 2.6

Consistent
 

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Many sources say that level 2 charging is also better for the battery.

I've seen where the UVO help page makes this claim, but I've not seen anyone else asserting that Level 2 charging is better for the battery. Most of the sources I've read suggest the opposite: that slow charging is better than fast charging in terms of battery health. If you have an external source that you can share that describes why Level 2 might be better, I'd love to see that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I ordered the Clipper Creek LCS-20 Model Level 2 charger. Thank you all for the input.

For us I believe the purchase will eventually pay for itself. Each week day I have to make 2 separated 30 mile round trips. The trips are 6 hours apart. this will allow me to drive on electric both times.

We traded in a 2008 Toyota Prius on the Plug in Niro. I was the only one in the family who really drove the Prius. With our Niro it seems it is the car of choice for the family. It is almost impossible to keep it plugged in during the day for more than a couple of hours.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I wanted to add our electric rates are $09 per Kwh so it cost us about $.54 per complete charge. I have been averaging 30 miles on a complete charge so the $.54 for my trip is a good savings over gas in our area which has been staying just under $3.00 per gallon
 

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I wanted to add our electric rates are $09 per Kwh so it cost us about $.54 per complete charge. I have been averaging 30 miles on a complete charge so the $.54 for my trip is a good savings over gas in our area which has been staying just under $3.00 per gallon
maybe

$0.09/kwhr x ~8kwhrs /full charge = ~$0.72/full charge
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think the Niro battery management system only lets the battery run down to 6.3 kwh. It maintains a reserve to run start the engine and run accessories on the vehicle - I don't believe it ever lets the battery approach a 0 state of charge. So far when I plug in after having driven the vehicle and exhausting the battery charge in EV mode the kwh monitoring for the outlet the charger is plugged in to says 6 to 6.3 kwh to bring it to full charge from 0.
 

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I think the Niro battery management system only lets the battery run down to 6.3 kwh. It maintains a reserve to run start the engine and run accessories on the vehicle - I don't believe it ever lets the battery approach a 0 state of charge. So far when I plug in after having driven the vehicle and exhausting the battery charge in EV mode the kwh monitoring for the outlet the charger is plugged in to says 6 to 6.3 kwh to bring it to full charge from 0.
I've measured 7.9Kwhrs for a full recharge. Full battery capacity spec is 8.9Kent's, so yes a reserve is maintained.

EPA spec says 32Kwhrs /100miles. 26miles range full tank gives 32 x 26 /100 = 8.3 kwhrs. FWIW.

Thus 6 kwhrs for full recharge seems too low.

I'll measure it again.
 

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I've measured 7.9Kwhrs for a full recharge. Full battery capacity spec is 8.9Kent's, so yes a reserve is maintained.

EPA spec says 32Kwhrs /100miles. 26miles range full tank gives 32 x 26 /100 = 8.3 kwhrs. FWIW.

Thus 6 kwhrs for full recharge seems too low.

I'll measure it again.
last July I measured and posted 8.15 Kwhrs (after driving 30 EV mi) to fully recharge.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you for you data. My device to measure Kwh is cheap and old I can't vouch for its accuracy plus I've only measured 2 of our charges. I would trust your data more than mine. The cost for 30 miles is still very low for around 8 kwh - $.72 as you suggest.

I think Kia hit a home run with the Plug In Niro. We couldn't be more pleased with this vehicle after a week. I still get a little excited driving it. I had no idea a Hybrid Plug in could be so comfortable and fun to drive.
 

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I think the Niro battery management system only lets the battery run down to 6.3 kwh. It maintains a reserve to run start the engine and run accessories on the vehicle - I don't believe it ever lets the battery approach a 0 state of charge. So far when I plug in after having driven the vehicle and exhausting the battery charge in EV mode the kwh monitoring for the outlet the charger is plugged in to says 6 to 6.3 kwh to bring it to full charge from 0.
last July I measured and posted 8.15 Kwhrs (after driving 30 EV mi) to fully recharge.
Just to add another data point, the most I've seen added to the battery is 8.29kWh. That's measured by the ChargePoint station at our condo complex so I hope it's fairly accurate. I've seen that level 3 or 4 times over the last several months. Average kWh to full charge from 0 range has been right around 8kWh.

It's important to note that this is the power measured at the AC charger. If the charge controller in the Niro is 95% efficient (WAG) then the actual energy delivered to the battery is more like 7.87kWh.
 

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Thank you for you data. My device to measure Kwh is cheap and old I can't vouch for its accuracy plus I've only measured 2 of our charges. I would trust your data more than mine. The cost for 30 miles is still very low for around 8 kwh - $.72 as you suggest.

I think Kia hit a home run with the Plug In Niro. We couldn't be more pleased with this vehicle after a week. I still get a little excited driving it. I had no idea a Hybrid Plug in could be so comfortable and fun to drive.
I agree! I too am happy. However, I would prefer 100HP EV and 60HP ICE. Currently we have 60HP EV and 100HP ICE.
 
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