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I've put on as much as 8.9 KWH.....
wow. I'm surprised.

Details please. Measuring instrument? Proceeding ev miles?
PN 2000 power monitor, an off brand but the same as sold under different names. 16A max. The KIA provided level 1 charger. I have a bit of uphill before home but a long stop from 55 as well. I don't remember just how much was left when I started, probably not much, no EV for sure, but was a bit surprised as well. I figured maybe 10% or so loss but also figured KIA would, if anything, overstate battery size.
 

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I agree! I too am happy. However, I would prefer 100HP EV and 60HP ICE. Currently we have 60HP EV and 100HP ICE.
While I've only had my car a couple of days, I too am overall happy with the system. If I could change any two things (I'm greedy, one change isn't enough >:) ) I would ask for a 6.6 kW charger instead of the 3.3 unit we have, and ask for the ability to switch to 100% EV mode. It would be nice to floor the throttle for a brief spurt without firing up the ICE. I can see the sense to power the engine if I'm climbing a long grade. In fact, I did that on purpose this morning driving to work, since I have a long grade to climb and I think it would be more efficient to use the EV mode where I can get more range out of it.

I'll be experimenting with using the EV/HV modes to see what works the best for my commute. I can't go to work and back home on a single charge, and have no ability to charge at work. So I think it makes sense to plan to use EV mode where it works best. I'll have to see if my thought process has any validity. :)
 

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While I've only had my car a couple of days, I too am overall happy with the system. If I could change any two things (I'm greedy, one change isn't enough >:) ) I would ask for a 6.6 kW charger instead of the 3.3 unit we have, and ask for the ability to switch to 100% EV mode. It would be nice to floor the throttle for a brief spurt without firing up the ICE. I can see the sense to power the engine if I'm climbing a long grade. In fact, I did that on purpose this morning driving to work, since I have a long grade to climb and I think it would be more efficient to use the EV mode where I can get more range out of it.

I'll be experimenting with using the EV/HV modes to see what works the best for my commute. I can't go to work and back home on a single charge, and have no ability to charge at work. So I think it makes sense to plan to use EV mode where it works best. I'll have to see if my thought process has any validity. :)
Yep, I agree. EV sport mode shift points without the ICE. Just a SW change. Kia, are you listening?
 

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This topic is going towards a question I’ve been asking myself.
There are three modes - ev, hybrid and sport.
When is the best time to use each?
 

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This topic is going towards a question I’ve been asking myself.
There are three modes - ev, hybrid and sport.
When is the best time to use each?
As with many things in life, the answer is, it depends. :D

  • Short trips around town with lots of stop and go? EV mode FTW
  • Long stretches on the highway? Kick it to HEV mode and save the EV range for when you get off the freeway
  • Need to merge in traffic or pass that clown going 45 in the left lane? Sport mode will give you more aggressive throttle response and kick the ICE in earlier to give you the most zip.
Of course, you could just do what I assume most of us do and just leave it alone and let the computer figure it out. I've only used Sport mode a couple of times and in general don't fiddle with the EV/HEV button.

Sport mode doesn't actually give you more power, it just changes the throttle response and in some cases runs the ICE at idle to allow a more aggressive takeoff. You can achieve the same effect by just flooring the throttle. In normal mode the throttle is pretty non-linear and requires you to really mash it to get any serious acceleration.

I've tried gaming the EV range by putting it in HEV mode on the highway but it's tough to get it exactly right and several times I found myself at my destination with miles still left on the battery. Kia's done a good job of wringing the most efficiency out of the PHEV and it's pretty hard to beat the computer at its own game.
 

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As with many things in life, the answer is, it depends. :D

  • Short trips around town with lots of stop and go? EV mode FTW
  • Long stretches on the highway? Kick it to HEV mode and save the EV range for when you get off the freeway
  • Need to merge in traffic or pass that clown going 45 in the left lane? Sport mode will give you more aggressive throttle response and kick the ICE in earlier to give you the most zip.
Of course, you could just do what I assume most of us do and just leave it alone and let the computer figure it out. I've only used Sport mode a couple of times and in general don't fiddle with the EV/HEV button.

Sport mode doesn't actually give you more power, it just changes the throttle response and in some cases runs the ICE at idle to allow a more aggressive takeoff. You can achieve the same effect by just flooring the throttle. In normal mode the throttle is pretty non-linear and requires you to really mash it to get any serious acceleration.

I've tried gaming the EV range by putting it in HEV mode on the highway but it's tough to get it exactly right and several times I found myself at my destination with miles still left on the battery. Kia's done a good job of wringing the most efficiency out of the PHEV and it's pretty hard to beat the computer at its own game.
I agree with this, but I've noticed Sport mode does seem to provide more power, particularly at low RPM. It's noticeably faster acceleration, but it could be as you note simply the electronics controlling the throttle. But it seems much more powerful than I get just by mashing the throttle.

Since I can't make my work commute round trip just in EV mode (36 mile round trip), I've been using Hybrid mode for the freeway portion. I generally have about 3 miles range when I get home, showing about 120 MPG for the trip. I had to make a 120 mile round trip a couple of days ago, mostly freeway, so I used the same plan. That total trip indicated just under 70 MPG, so I think it pays to manually control the mode when making extended trips.

But if my trip is expected to be completed within the potential battery range (say up to 25 miles), then I'll leave it in EV mode the entire time. So far I've had the car for 5 days, and the total MPG since I picked it us is showing about 95 MPG. I would say I'm pretty satisfied with the entire car. I wish I had the EV range of a Volt or Clarity, but this will be fine for my 3 year lease. I'll be retired by then most likely, and ready to switch to a pure EV.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. We have received and installed a Clipper Creek LCS-20 Level 2 charging station. I am an electrician so I installed it myself. I went ahead and ordered the LPS-20 which is the hardwired model. I installed it in the garage and I used all weathertite fittings and boxes to completely eliminate any concerns with water inadvertently being squirted around- (young kids). Used 20 amp double pole breaker as Clipper Creek recommends and is 25% more than the 16 amps for the unit as required by code. It is a dedicated circuit as required for a Level 2 chargers. Pulled permits and had it inspected. Unit is UL listed which is a must for units installed in a residential dwelling.

Very pleased with the results it has cut charging time down from 7 to 8 hours to just under 2.5. This is going to be the ticket to eliminate gas usage for our family. Quite pleased with the quality and the performance of the Clipper Creek unit.
 

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Very pleased with the results it has cut charging time down from 7 to 8 hours to just under 2.5.
That is a BIG difference of charge time.. Still cannot understand why PHEV owners still uses the L1 charger at home!:confused:
 

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I think it's great that we Niro PHEV owners have the option of installing an L2 charger. I did consider it but determined given my driving habits, it would be an unnecessary expenditure. I get on average three days of driving from a complete charge. I charge during the evening after I know I'm home for the night. I did recently forget to charge my car one evening for the first time in 10 months of ownership. I realized it when I was leaving for work so even then an L2 charger wouldn't have made any difference. To date I've only used two tank fulls of gas. In my rural community, gas is currently priced at $3.79/gal. It's not so much about how we charge our PHEV, but how we avoid the gas pump that really matters. And I'm very happy about that.
 

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That is a BIG difference of charge time.. Still cannot understand why PHEV owners still uses the L1 charger at home!:confused:
Because I can easily fully charge overnight while I sleep? :confused:

It doesn't make any difference to me if the car finishes charging at 1am when I don't get up until 5.
 

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because an l2 charger costs $200?
Well, that's better than the $600 40 amp L2 charger my son-in-law bought to charge their Pacifica. :) But since their car has a 6.6 kW charger, and she has about 32 miles of EV range with it, the fastest charger makes perfect sense. She can drive to/from work just with EV power, plug in at home, and by the time she has to leave to pick the kids up from school (piano, swimming, always somewhere to go) it is again fully charged and she continues driving under EV power. Right now she's gone 950 miles, and still has a half tank of gas.

While I don't run as many errands as she does, I want the flexibility of charging as quickly as possible to maximize the amount of EV driving I do. I can't go to/from work on just EV, so I'm empty when I get home. It's rare that I don't need to run somewhere after work, so charging as full as possible help minimize my gas burn.

I just had to fill my tank today. I've had to make a 120 mile round trip twice last week because my mom had a stroke and I needed to get there. I have to go up there again this week and stay with them for a while, until her medical team says she doesn't need someone there at all times. You can see by my Fuelly that even with those long road trips, my first tank was pretty good. Once I'm not needing to run back and forth to my parents I expect my MPG average to go well above 100. but I couldn't do that with a L1 charger.
 

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Because I can easily fully charge overnight while I sleep? :confused:

It doesn't make any difference to me if the car finishes charging at 1am when I don't get up until 5.
Hi Jim, True that a L1 Charger can be used overnight with a full 8 hours charge, and that it's not everybody that wants a L2 Charger.. But a L2 charger gives you more effective results on the wait time if you need to charge it in the day, etc... My comment was not made to "insult" any at home Niro's L1 chargers, but more as of a: "the L2 charger can do more for you" kind of statement..

I do not know if in your Southern MD home, your Niro sleeps in a Garage at night, but mine does not.. (do not have a garage or carport, etc..) Since the Canadian winter is more present, i did not want too use my L1 Charger outside with the rain, snow and extreme weather. So i opted for a L2 Charger that can be installed outside and supports all kind of temperature from 125f to -40f.


Here are some L2 points that i was loking for:
- 240v 30amp (for 2.5h full charging)
- Wall mount for the charging station and cable holder
- Can handle Weather (more the winter time)
- 25 feet cable
- Wifi app charging control

@charlesH , it's true a L2 charger has a cost, but sometime's, for certain situations, it is worth it to get one. Ok, mine cost me good, but i got a 350$ Can. rebate (and 250$ Can for the install) from my Quebec Government.


@atc98092: a 200$ L2 Charger is really cheap. a good one cost the same price that you have said! ~ 600$.. and more...
 

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Hi Jim, True that a L1 Charger can be used overnight with a full 8 hours charge, and that it's not everybody that wants a L2 Charger.. But a L2 charger gives you more effective results on the wait time if you need to charge it in the day, etc... My comment was not made to "insult" any at home Niro's L1 chargers, but more as of a: "the L2 charger can do more for you" kind of statement..

I do not know if in your Southern MD home, your Niro sleeps in a Garage at night, but mine does not.. (do not have a garage or carport, etc..) Since the Canadian winter is more present, i did not want too use my L1 Charger outside with the rain, snow and extreme weather. So i opted for a L2 Charger that can be installed outside and supports all kind of temperature from 125f to -40f.
No worries, my reply was intended to be tongue in cheek anyway. In my case I do have a garage and can charge inside overnight, so the L1 charger is plenty for that use case. I considered installing an L2 charger, but the costs exceeded the benefits for me. In my case the statement "the L2 charger can do more for you" isn't true. Or, more correctly, the additional capabilities it provides are not things I care about or am willing to pay for.

Obviously, YMMV. :D
 

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@atc98092: a 200$ L2 Charger is really cheap. a good one cost the same price that you have said! ~ 600$.. and more...
Yes, $200 is cheap, but remember that the PHEV only has a 3.3 kW charger, so there's no benefit for that car having one with higher power. If I plug my car into my daughter's charger, it won't charge any faster than with my charger. The EVSE I bought is only 16 amp, which is all the PHEV Niro supports. The only benefit I would get from a more expensive EVSE would be if it had WiFi so I could monitor the charging better than with the Evo app (which isn't all that great). Not worth the additional cost. But since my wiring will support a higher capacity EVSE, I'm ready for any future car that can support a faster charge.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
In the interest of playing it forward I was going to post my time and cost for this Level 2 project and reasoning for doing it in case it would help someone.

It can be like a buffet - take what you want and leave what you don't care for.

Level 2 charger -LCS-20 Clipper Creek cost = $400 (shipping, taxes included)
Cheapest unit they made that will supply the Level 2 charge for the Niro, UL listed

Wiring,electrical conduit, boxes etc - all weathertite = $65
100" run of wire from service panel to Level 2 charger

20 amp double pole breaker =$8
Square D HOM

Permitting process =$45

8 hours of my own time = free

Total cost of project =$518 and 8 hours of my time

Expected return on Investment - why I did project?
We have to make two 30 mile round trips each day with 4 to 6 hours between trips. The 1st trip was being taken care of just fine by overnight charging with the supplied Level 1 charger. It was the 2nd round trip and the other small errands that I wasn't getting the benefit of the EV portion of the vehicle because of the lack of time to charge.
Our Kwh rate is .09 kwh and our current gas prices are knocking on the door of $3 per gallon.
8kw x$.09 = $.72 for 30 miles / gas @ $3 gallon is maybe $1.72 for 30 miles
Savings =$1 per day. So for one year a savings of $365 I am only figuring in the second 30 mile round trip as the 1st one was covered okay with the Level 1 charger. I am including a $1 a day for Sat and Sun because of the constant running around the car gets these two days. So it will take about 1.5 years to recover the cost of the equipment. If I had to hire another electrician I would estimate they would have charged between $500 to $1000 dollars to do job. $750 would be middle ground and would add 2 additional years to have the job pay for itself.
From an economic standpoint I couldn't have justified the cost if we made only one 30 mile round trip per day. If I had to hire an electrician I would have had 2nd thoughts about doing project.

Hopefully our information will help someone else to make a decision for their family on a project like this. Again thank you all for sharing your experiences and charger recommendations- we took them all into consideration before doing this job.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
The distance of the wire run was 100' not 100". Post wouldn't let me edit a second time.
 

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That is a BIG difference of charge time.. Still cannot understand why PHEV owners still uses the L1 charger at home!:confused:
Hi everybody!

I think the answer is pretty simple, until you have a lvl2 charger at home, you don't really feel the need for it ;)
I'm saying that because I was using the home charger for the 1st 2 months, and at that time I would say that overnight charging works perfectly fine.

But since I got my $200 lvl2 charger on dryer plug, it simply changed my mind about it :)
Charging in max 2h30, most of the time ~1h, makes you more confy charging at any time when you come back home and finally doing more than 24miles of EV in the day ;)
(practically, if I stay in city, I'm driving EV all the time, charging 1h time to time when at home with lvl2 charger).

Christophe.
 
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