[Griswald]

That's a more direct way to get similar info, with a bit of additional hardware. Another data point: I saw on PHEV Watchdog's web site - when logged in, across the 23 Kia/Hyundai PHEV being tracked there the average is 71% EV driving (29% with ICE running).

And that's just about what I get after 100000 mi!es, just about 70% - 30%

 

[dblackfl]

I am not too sure how to interpret the overall mpg with the PHEV. Mixing EV mode with ICE mode really muddies the water and if one minimizes the amount of non-EV miles, it seems that eventually with time, the mpg estimate goes back up to 999. It's more of a novelty number. I am disappointed when I do a manual mpg calculation using ICE only and realize that I am only getting 46-49 mpg on gas and not 999 mpg.

In Kia's defense (?) if the car isn't maintaining an actual mpg number for when the ICE is running, I believe that's the best simple number they can offer. If you average 48 mpg on gas, "999" mpg just means for that trip it ran the ICE no more than 48 / 999, or less than 5% of the total miles. It shows a proportion - not to imply you have to drive 999 miles. Another easy example: again assuming 48 mpg on gas, an indicated 96 mpg - double that, means it split EV and ICE miles about 50/50.

 

[dblackfl]

And that's just about what I get after 100000 mi!es, just about 70% - 30%

Begs the question... what's an ideal or just desirable percentage? How high is it worth making and paying for? Around 70% is a goodly chunk of the total miles - 70K in your case. More EV range would of course further raise that percentage. How much more depends entirely on the distribution of trip lengths beyond it. Some people already drive their PHEVs at such a high EV percentage we read of concerns for gas in the tank getting stale.

My calculated 67% EV driving so far doesn't illustrate that in practice it approaches 100% for weekday errands and commutes. The car is almost perfect for those - no need to go to the gas station and charge once or if needed, twice a day at home. Then there are the longer weekend trips well beyond the EV range of any current PHEV anyway.

Earlier I thought PHEVs should go a lot further on electric. Now I'm not so sure, and am considering we may already be in a good sweet spot as that range approaches even 50 miles.

 

[vangone]

In Kia's defense (?) if the car isn't maintaining an actual mpg number for when the ICE is running, I believe that's the best simple number they can offer. If you average 48 mpg on gas, "999" mpg just means for that trip it ran the ICE no more than 48 / 999, or less than 5% of the total miles. It shows a proportion - not to imply you have to drive 999 miles. Another easy example: again assuming 48 mpg on gas, an indicated 96 mpg - double that, means it split EV and ICE miles about 50/50.

I didn't mean to criticize the KIA display system, but rather to point out that the mpg is the number of miles driven per gallon consumed, but not the actual ICE mpg.

I still like to think of our PHEV as an EV with a large capacity backup generator that extends our driving range to over 500 miles with the flexibility of adding a few hundred miles of extra range in less than 10 minutes at the gas pump!

 

[dblackfl]

I didn't mean to criticize the KIA display system...

I still like to think of our PHEV as an EV with a large capacity backup generator that extends our driving range to over 500 miles with the flexibility of adding a few hundred miles of extra range in less than 10 minutes at the gas pump!

I myself have called it bogus from frustration at trying to make sense of why Kia would include something apparently misleading. It's not like the electric is free. If gas were free we'd be happy to call it infinite mpg too. 😏

You may know you're describing a range extender type EV. One thing that design can't do is combine motive force like a hybrid can. They're also more simple. Because in general car manufacturing appears to be shifting towards EVs and simple is usually cheaper, I still hold the prediction we'll gradually see more range extender types for sale. That and fewer PHEVs as we now know them.

 

[Joel S]

I have had my PHEV for a little over 1 month. My normal daily driving is less than 30 miles per day. So, no gas used. I prefer EV+ mode (hold down the EV button for a few seconds). I also have made seven 75 mile roundtrip days; yes gas used. I am still on the tank of gas that came with the vehicle, still have 3 gal in the tank. This is exactly what I was after. Normal days all electric, but when I go on a longer trips no range considerations. Later this week I will go on a 600-mile trip. On this trip no range anxiety, no looking for charge stations, and a 2 min fill-up at any gas station. You do not need to look for a gas station, they are everywhere.

The vehicle does come with a level 1 charger, and you can use that at home, but it is not as convenient as having a level 2 charger. So, in my opinion, without a way to charge at home do not get a PHEV. The level 1 charge will work but to be really happy you need to install a level 2 charger. If not get the HEV.

 

[Bob Davis]

I've had my PHEV Niro for over 3 years and my experience is much like the description below. I rarely go over the 26 miles of all-electric (solar panel generated) power so I rarely get gas. Even for longer trips the 11 gallons in the tank goes a long way. I love my plug-in hybrid. In a few years the infrastructure will be much better for charging cars and the time needed for charging will be dramtatically less. I use a level 2 charger at home and charge from Midnight on for about 2 1/2 hours when the price for electricity is the lowest, at least here in San Diego.

I have had my PHEV for a little over 1 month. My normal daily driving is less than 30 miles per day. So, no gas used. I prefer EV+ mode (hold down the EV button for a few seconds). I also have made seven 75 mile roundtrip days; yes gas used. I am still on the tank of gas that came with the vehicle, still have 3 gal in the tank. This is exactly what I was after. Normal days all electric, but when I go on a longer trips no range considerations. Later this week I will go on a 600-mile trip. On this trip no range anxiety, no looking for charge stations, and a 2 min fill-up at any gas station. You do not need to look for a gas station, they are everywhere.

The vehicle does come with a level 1 charger, and you can use that at home, but it is not as convenient as having a level 2 charger. So, in my opinion, without a way to charge at home do not get a PHEV. The level 1 charge will work but to be really happy you need to install a level 2 charger. If not get the HEV.

 

[KeysJerry]

I have had my PHEV for a little over 1 month. My normal daily driving is less than 30 miles per day. So, no gas used. I prefer EV+ mode (hold down the EV button for a few seconds). I also have made seven 75 mile roundtrip days; yes gas used. I am still on the tank of gas that came with the vehicle, still have 3 gal in the tank. This is exactly what I was after. Normal days all electric, but when I go on a longer trips no range considerations. Later this week I will go on a 600-mile trip. On this trip no range anxiety, no looking for charge stations, and a 2 min fill-up at any gas station. You do not need to look for a gas station, they are everywhere.

The vehicle does come with a level 1 charger, and you can use that at home, but it is not as convenient as having a level 2 charger. So, in my opinion, without a way to charge at home do not get a PHEV. The level 1 charge will work but to be really happy you need to install a level 2 charger. If not get the HEV.

Also consider the tax advantages, depending on the country. When we got ours, the PHEV cost more, but after the tax credit it was the same as a similarly loaded HEV - in which case you take the “free” extra batteries

 

[doro6529]

Some will say that doesn't count, as you're still running the ICE and causing emissions. Of course, pre-'23 the ICE was the only way to heat the cabin, and while it was running it was only running at a fast idle until it was warm enough to provide some cabin heat, then turn back off. Other than providing a trickle charge to the battery, the ICE wasn't moving the car. With a '23 that has the cold weather package, you now have an electric heater so the ICE won't run at all solely for cabin heat.

Seems a waste of energy not to harness the engine to the drivetrain while it's running just for the sake of heat. Not a small also, the engine will heat up faster since it would be under load.

 

[dblackfl]

Seems a waste of energy not to harness the engine to the drivetrain while it's running just for the sake of heat. Not a small also, the engine will heat up faster since it would be under load.

The example with the ICE running at ~idle just for heat applies to when the car is otherwise in EV mode: there's plenty of battery charge and the electric motor can meet the traction load demand. When the ICE needs to be on to help drive the wheels - e.g. if you floor the accelerator, heating the cabin from the engine then becomes a freebie and the situation you mention applies. BTW, a third use of the ICE is to charge the HV battery, and that can be concurrent with it helping move the wheels. So far I see the management of the mix is remarkably well-handled, preferring EV alone when conditions permit (that's why we have a hybrid), adding the ICE only if and when needed for any of its three functions.

My hypothetical question was basically, if the ICE is running but not driving the wheels, would you call that "EV driving?" I say it's a "no" because the car is burning gas (regardless of why), so the car isn't functioning as a "pure" EV. By comparison "EV mode" in these cars simply means the wheels are being driven solely by the electric motor. The ICE may or may not be running.

 

[neogenesus]

Overall I don't think it matters if you use EV or ICE going uphill. In EV mode you are using more electrical energy per unit distance, just like using more gas with the ICE per unit distance. I am not too sure how to interpret the overall mpg with the PHEV. Mixing EV mode with ICE mode really muddies the water and if one minimizes the amount of non-EV miles, it seems that eventually with time, the mpg estimate goes back up to 999. It's more of a novelty number. I am disappointed when I do a manual mpg calculation using ICE only and realize that I am only getting 46-49 mpg on gas and not 999 mpg.

It does matter. I know by going uphill, the car will use more energy regarding using EV or ICE. But, electric energy is cheaper and you can actually regenerate a little bit of that power when going downhill. Can't regenerate gas unless you fill it up. I drive at speed limit most of the time and that helps. If you are driving 80mph on an uphill then no matter what you do, it will always use both ICE and EV.