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Hello Everyone. Just bought a 2019 Niro Touring last Dec 15. Loving the car until last Friday, Dec 28 when it wont start the ICE. Its says check hybrid engine system. Maybe i cant handle Manitoba’s winter chills. Hope it will be fixed soon. Advance happy new year!
 

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Someone in my Quebec Niro's facebook group had the same problem, was resolved at the dealership. i dont think the canadian chills has a direct effect on this problem!



give us some more news!
 

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My Niro was back for the 3rd time in the dealership last Thursday (Jan,. 24, 2019) for the exact same error.
The first fix they did last Dec 28 was just a reset. Picked it up last January 3, drove for a week i think then after a -16 temperature it didn't start again (January 8)with the same error.
The 2nd fix was that they changed the "hybrid power relay assembly". Got it running since January 18 then last thursday, January 24 after being subjected to - 26 temp, same error. Was towed to the dealership again. Still waiting for an update for the fix this time. I really think that its the subzero temp os freezing the car. Ill be emailing kia canada to have me refunded(buy back the car) or replace it with an ICE car. The Niro is not built for Manitoba harsh winter weather..
 

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I've been wondering about how well it would do in extreme low or high temps. Batteries don't like temperature extremes. My limited understanding is that at low temps, they just don't deliver the juice and are also unwilling to take a charge, whereas at high temps (and especially with high charge), they deteriorate. I wonder how other models (e.g., the Prius) do in extreme cold, and if they include extra technology to help with that when sold in colder markets.
 

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we will be giving it a try in a few days here in Toronto. If the weather reports are correct we will have three days with highs in the -17c but feeling like -30c. At night it will be down in the -25c. With three days in a row, it will give my car a real test as I don't drive long distances and not every day, so if the battery and electronics are going to conk out, then it will likely be in this period.
 

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I really think that its the subzero temp os freezing the car. Ill be emailing kia canada to have me refunded(buy back the car) or replace it with an ICE car. The Niro is not built for Manitoba harsh winter weather..

Really sorry too hear that.! There is something else that will need a fix.! I do not think that the cold is the only issue... We had a "blizzard" last week in Qc, and it got sooo low with a -35c with wind-factor (-31f), and it started with no problem.! Be patient, they will get it fix.. and if not.. change the dealer.!





@deltasmith : I dont think that kia install extra technology for places of the world that are coolder than others.. but it seems to be working #1.. (for me)

@Roadkill401 : Yep, i have seen it this morning, from wednesday till saturday with some -28 with wind factor and a 20cm of snow on thuesday! issshhhh!!!
 
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I don't think that Kia is ignorant about cold weather. Considering they make the cars for the EU market and sell quite a bit in places like Finland and Sweeden, they must know about cold. My wife is from Kapuskasing and GM I know had a winter drive testing facility up there as they have temps in the same range if not worse that what Winipeg has. I would imagine that companies like Kia and Hyundi also have test facilities for countries that have winter. Just becuase there are qutie a few people in California and Florida who get warm temps pretty much year round, doesn't discount cities in North Dakota and Deluth Minnesota. they are close to your temps too.
 

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I don't think that Kia is ignorant about cold weather. Considering they make the cars for the EU market and sell quite a bit in places like Finland and Sweeden, they must know about cold. My wife is from Kapuskasing and GM I know had a winter drive testing facility up there as they have temps in the same range if not worse that what Winipeg has. I would imagine that companies like Kia and Hyundi also have test facilities for countries that have winter. Just becuase there are qutie a few people in California and Florida who get warm temps pretty much year round, doesn't discount cities in North Dakota and Deluth Minnesota. they are close to your temps too.
I don't think they are either, I just wonder how the electrical system behaves in extreme cold temps.

According to Battery University, standard Lithium Ion batteries won't accept a charge below 0 C.

According to the owner's manual, the car might display a message on the dash about switching to HEV mode because of low/high temp. I wonder if anyone has seen that in cold weather yet.

The battery pack is protected by a cooling fan in hot conditions. I wonder if maybe that fan also runs in cold conditions to pump heat from the cabin over the traction battery. If so, running heat through the rear ventilation ducts might help in cold weather (assuming the ICE starts and is providing heat, that is).
 

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I don't think they are either, I just wonder how the electrical system behaves in extreme cold temps.

According to Battery University, standard Lithium Ion batteries won't accept a charge below 0 C.

According to the owner's manual, the car might display a message on the dash about switching to HEV mode because of low/high temp. I wonder if anyone has seen that in cold weather yet.

I have charged it at -19c (-2.2f) with wind factor last week, with no problem and run on EV mode. The only time it does switch, it's when heating is ON or 0km is left. Not because it's cold
 

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For purposes of battery behavior, I think it's the thermometer temperature, not the wind chill factor, that's likely to be important.

My guess is that attempting to charge the battery at low temps initially results in slow charge, but perhaps also warms the battery to a point where it eventually begins to accept a charge at a faster rate. The owner's manual potentially supports this idea, when it points out that "ambient temperature" can affect the time required to charge the PHEV. This might also be one of the important factors in reduced fuel economy that people have noticed in cold temps.

If this idea holds any water, then it raises some interesting questions for folks who live in cold climates. For one, is it smarter to begin charging the PHEV right after you get home, in the middle of the night, or at a time that will be reaching fully charged just shortly before you leave in the morning? If you begin charging right after you get home, presumably your battery is at a "happy" temperature where it can easily accept a charge. If you wait until the middle of the night, the battery will have cooled off by then and maybe you have to spend a few extra kWh on your electric meter with electricity that wound up going to heat the battery, rather than charging it (but depending on your electric utility, maybe those extra kWh are cheaper in the middle of the night). If you charge on a timer and charging doesn't begin until a few hours before you leave in the morning, by that time the battery might have cooled to ambient temp so you might be paying more kWh to charge, but perhaps there's a benefit in that if it was charging right up until the time you left, then the battery's already warmer than it otherwise would be, and that might mean that you get more benefit from regenerative braking in your morning drive than you would with a battery that was at ambient temperature.

For both HEV and PHEV owners, there might be a second thing to think about: if you drive the first mile or so in the morning in EV mode (without the ICE running, which means no heat and which I admit might be a stupid thing to do if you need a defroster, or if you have concerns that the ICE might not start due to the cold temps), then presumably the energy draw on the battery will help to warm up the battery and make it more receptive to receiving a charge from regenerative braking.

This is all speculation on my part, and I regret that I can't investigate it directly and report back on my findings. I used to live in a cold climate, but I don't at the moment. Instead, my personal concern is how to best take care of the battery when the temps in my area exceed 100 F (38 C) for weeks at a time (which they will surely do about six months from now). I'm pretty sure that in high temps, I should refrain from charging my PHEV to full charge, but I haven't found an easy way to do that. It would be nice if I could program the charging logic to stop at 80% instead of 100%.
 

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For purposes of battery behavior, I think it's the thermometer temperature, not the wind chill factor, that's likely to be important.

Made a full charged yesterday night at -21 (-5.8F) without wind chill factor and took 2.5 hours.! This morning, -19 (-2.2) without wind chill factor, and vroum.. all went soft with the remote start with UVO...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I don't think that Kia is ignorant about cold weather. Considering they make the cars for the EU market and sell quite a bit in places like Finland and Sweeden, they must know about cold. My wife is from Kapuskasing and GM I know had a winter drive testing facility up there as they have temps in the same range if not worse that what Winipeg has. I would imagine that companies like Kia and Hyundi also have test facilities for countries that have winter. Just becuase there are qutie a few people in California and Florida who get warm temps pretty much year round, doesn't discount cities in North Dakota and Deluth Minnesota. they are close to your temps too.
That is what i initially thought. But when i was stil canvassing and choosing between the Niro PHEV vs HEV , the dealerships told me that the PHEV will not be sold here in Winnipeg because of the harsher winter weather. The PHEV is “not certified to be sold here” they said. If I understand it right, apart from the PHEV has a larger battery and being ble to be charged/plugged everything is mechanical the same, right? Which raises me to question what are their basis when they said that the PHEV is not certified to be sold here.

The dealership updated me and said that While my vehicle was in their lot since last week after it was towed in(January 24)the car has no prblem starting. We had a -40 temp without windchill here last Wednesday i think but the car survived. We are just waiting for the Kia Rep to arrive on monday to check the vehicle. Im just hoping that they will be able to get a fix.
 

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We bought our 2019 Niro Hybrid in early December 2018. We have experienced the same issue twice now. It is currently at the dealer. I spoke with the service manager there today and he is requesting from Kia Canada that the hybrid system be replaced in the vehicle. He didn't come out and saw it but it seems Kia Canada are aware of this flaw in the vehicle. I will keep you posted on what happens with our vehicle. If you have any news on how your vehicle gets properly fixed please post it as well.
 

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We bought our 2019 Niro Hybrid in early December 2018. We have experienced the same issue twice now. It is currently at the dealer. I spoke with the service manager there today and he is requesting from Kia Canada that the hybrid system be replaced in the vehicle. He didn't come out and say it but it seems Kia Canada are aware of this flaw in the vehicle. I will keep you posted on what happens with our vehicle. If you have any news on how your vehicle gets properly fixed please post it as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
We bought our 2019 Niro Hybrid in early December 2018. We have experienced the same issue twice now. It is currently at the dealer. I spoke with the service manager there today and he is requesting from Kia Canada that the hybrid system be replaced in the vehicle. He didn't come out and say it but it seems Kia Canada are aware of this flaw in the vehicle. I will keep you posted on what happens with our vehicle. If you have any news on how your vehicle gets properly fixed please post it as well.
Sad to hear about that. May i know what did the dealership do when it first happened? Did they mention if its the "hybrid power relay assembly" that caused that issue?

My car is also in the dealership for 2 weeks now. They Kia engineers wants to run more diagnostics so what they will do is swap some parts from a known running vehicle from their lot and send the flight recordings.
 

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That is what i initially thought. But when i was stil canvassing and choosing between the Niro PHEV vs HEV , the dealerships told me that the PHEV will not be sold here in Winnipeg because of the harsher winter weather. The PHEV is “not certified to be sold here” they said. If I understand it right, apart from the PHEV has a larger battery and being ble to be charged/plugged everything is mechanical the same, right? Which raises me to question what are their basis when they said that the PHEV is not certified to be sold here.

The dealership updated me and said that While my vehicle was in their lot since last week after it was towed in(January 24)the car has no prblem starting. We had a -40 temp without windchill here last Wednesday i think but the car survived. We are just waiting for the Kia Rep to arrive on monday to check the vehicle. Im just hoping that they will be able to get a fix.

Though most of what you said is true, there are also some other technical differences between the HEV and PHEV vehicles. One of the ones that can play is on how the battery sets work inside. The HEV doesn't have a regular car battery for the 12v, rather it is a Li-Ion that is bundled with the traction battery set under the rear car seat. But I suspect that it also sits above the gas tank so there is far more insulation between the battery and the outside. Whereas the PHEV has a much larger traction battery set. It doesn't all fit under the rear seat and takes up a section of the cargo space (it's where the spare tire could be fit under the rear cargo cover). Also, there is a regular car battery in the back too. Now the 12v battery is not a very large one with little actual cold cranking amps as it doesn't actually start the engine but is there to just run the electronics such as the ECM, hybrid controller and the plug-in battery charge computer. Now it might be that Kia knows that this 12v battery can get too cold and can dip in voltage too much that it trips the battery saver?? I don't know.
It could be that even though the car can run at these rather cold temperatures, the PHEV would not get the posted 26miles on the charge as with a cold battery pack you are going to lose an amount of battery efficiency. So it is political in someone will complain that I bought the car and the add says it can do the 26miles but when I try, I am only getting 16 (and that is because the car can't warm up the batteries fast enough to overcome the inefficiency factor of being so cold.)
It could be that there is not going to be enough demand for the PlugIn so it would simply not be cost effective to sell as it costs money to bring in the support equipment to service and train the techs to service the car. If they are projecting they will likely sell less than 2 a year then why put the option into the marketplace.


All possibilities.
 

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Someone in my Quebec Niro's facebook group had the same problem, was resolved at the dealership. i dont think the canadian chills has a direct effect on this problem!



give us some more news!

I live in Northern NY state, 6 hours/350 miles NORTH of NYC, and just 25 miles South of the Canadian border, 60 miles South of Montreal Quebec to be exact....... we have wind chills down to -30 below zero here and it's never affected the cars ability to start. Of course it ALWAYS starts the ICE right away in those temps, we DO get starts in EV only in spring, summer and some of fall seasons. I'm sure that having the 240v hybrid battery and the 12v lithium ion accessory battery under the back seat offer much better shielding for those of us that park outdoors, compared to batteries "under the hood"........... this thing starts great in sub zero weather.
 

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My Niro was back for the 3rd time in the dealership last Thursday (Jan,. 24, 2019) for the exact same error.
The first fix they did last Dec 28 was just a reset. Picked it up last January 3, drove for a week i think then after a -16 temperature it didn't start again (January 8)with the same error.
The 2nd fix was that they changed the "hybrid power relay assembly". Got it running since January 18 then last thursday, January 24 after being subjected to - 26 temp, same error. Was towed to the dealership again. Still waiting for an update for the fix this time. I really think that its the subzero temp os freezing the car. Ill be emailing kia canada to have me refunded(buy back the car) or replace it with an ICE car. The Niro is not built for Manitoba harsh winter weather..

I'm in Northern NY state 60 miles south of Montreal,,,,,,,,wind chills here down to -30 below zero..........2017 Niro EX HEV starts great....... Check Hybrid System has been an error for other users on this forum and I can't remember what the cause was but it was a rather simple fix.
 

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I don't think they are either, I just wonder how the electrical system behaves in extreme cold temps.

According to Battery University, standard Lithium Ion batteries won't accept a charge below 0 C.

According to the owner's manual, the car might display a message on the dash about switching to HEV mode because of low/high temp. I wonder if anyone has seen that in cold weather yet.

The battery pack is protected by a cooling fan in hot conditions. I wonder if maybe that fan also runs in cold conditions to pump heat from the cabin over the traction battery. If so, running heat through the rear ventilation ducts might help in cold weather (assuming the ICE starts and is providing heat, that is).

I get a BETTER charge in the coldest temps simply because the ICE/engine is running more with cabin heat turned higher or often MAX, and my hybrid battery gauge is often one box below full/max,,,,,,sometimes even max (which FYI is 80% NOT 100%) even with a max battery gauge display of MAX it still only charges to 80% (the 240v hybrid battery that is) the software allows the 12v lithium ion to achieve a full 100% charge.
 
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