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We just put a deposit on an EX Premium, and I want to know if I’ve made a terrible mistake. I didn’t properly consider the Plug-in EX, and there’s a new Canadian rebate of $2500 (sadly Ontario has nothing more). With the rebate the prices are closer, but although we have chargers at work it’s 70km away each way. Any thoughts?
 

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Well, half your distance will be covered by electrons, presumably free at the work end. How much does gas cost in Canada again? Or perhaps the Kona EV and no gas ever again!
 

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I can take it that you are located in Canada.. I have the EX and love it. When I bought there just were not any plug ins around and I wanted a car now, not 4-5 months from not to get one on order. I don't know if the dealership you bought from has a plugin? From my personal needs, the only real benifit of the plugin is to get the HOV lane plate. The added cost of the vehicle for the amount of driving that I do, the break even point was just too far into the future to justify (as Ontraio had rightfully canned the rebate).


Take into consideration as well. Up here gets cold in Winter and stays that way for well into half of the year. The PHEV doesn't produce heat from electricity, so depending if you like to drive with a heater turned on, your gas engine will be running to provice the warmth. So the side of you get that 45km or whatever it is of EV driving, it sort of a con job. You are running a gasoline engine to warm you and dumping all the same polution into the air. So if you are buying for that GREEN feeling, your fooling youself. When it gets rather cold I drive my kid to school as there is no bus in my area. The distance would be perfect for the Plugin EV mode, but it is the cold bit that sort of breaks the benefit.



The Plugin is a great vehicle, and I don't doubt that it has a place in the market.
 

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The CCP package available in Canada means heat without running the engine. Extra cost, but heated rear seats are part of it, and lower cost heating and AC than non heat pump cars.
 

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I can take it that you are located in Canada.. I have the EX and love it. When I bought there just were not any plug ins around and I wanted a car now, not 4-5 months from not to get one on order. I don't know if the dealership you bought from has a plugin? From my personal needs, the only real benifit of the plugin is to get the HOV lane plate. The added cost of the vehicle for the amount of driving that I do, the break even point was just too far into the future to justify (as Ontraio had rightfully canned the rebate).


Take into consideration as well. Up here gets cold in Winter and stays that way for well into half of the year. The PHEV doesn't produce heat from electricity, so depending if you like to drive with a heater turned on, your gas engine will be running to provice the warmth. So the side of you get that 45km or whatever it is of EV driving, it sort of a con job. You are running a gasoline engine to warm you and dumping all the same polution into the air. So if you are buying for that GREEN feeling, your fooling youself. When it gets rather cold I drive my kid to school as there is no bus in my area. The distance would be perfect for the Plugin EV mode, but it is the cold bit that sort of breaks the benefit.



The Plugin is a great vehicle, and I don't doubt that it has a place in the market.

You have both an HEV and a PHEV right? Have you ever tried to compare your fuel economy in the winter from driving first one and then the other to work? I was under the impression that once you've warmed up the ICE, if you switch to EV mode but the ICE continues to run to make heat, that it runs in a way that is pretty efficient? Obviously, if you make a long trip and you don't manage to use a significant amount of your EV range over some stretch of that trip, then the PHEV isn't helping and you're probably getting worse economy than you would in an HEV due to the extra weight. On the other hand, if you have any serious climbing to do and you conserve the PHEV's battery charge for that section of the trip, it's nice to have the extra power assist and might even be more efficient for that kind of driving.
 

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You have both an HEV and a PHEV right? Have you ever tried to compare your fuel economy in the winter from driving first one and then the other to work? I was under the impression that once you've warmed up the ICE, if you switch to EV mode but the ICE continues to run to make heat, that it runs in a way that is pretty efficient? Obviously, if you make a long trip and you don't manage to use a significant amount of your EV range over some stretch of that trip, then the PHEV isn't helping and you're probably getting worse economy than you would in an HEV due to the extra weight. On the other hand, if you have any serious climbing to do and you conserve the PHEV's battery charge for that section of the trip, it's nice to have the extra power assist and might even be more efficient for that kind of driving.

No, as I stated, I did not buy the PHEV becuase I live in Ontario, and they are just about impossible to get short of special ordering them. When I purchased my HEV they were not even really officially for sale in Canada, yet my dealer did put on on special order for one of thier customers and it took 6 months to arrive. By that time, the purchaser has lost his job (or so the dealer said) and financing fell through. They sold it 3 days later.



As for the heating. I had said when you get down to a cold temperature that it does up here in Canada, the residual heat inside the ICE is not enough to run the heating. I know that from experiance this past winter we had some pretty cold days. Even at stop lights when normally the engine will turn off, if the heating was left on the ICE did not shut down. If however, you turned off the heating, the ICE will shut off and the NIRO would run in EV mode. I wondered why the engine was running quite high revs and not shutting off even though the battery level was near full. That is what caused me to try experimenting. I found that I could get better fuel efficiancy to manually keep modulating the heating on/off based on battery level.


I cannot imagine that a PHEV would have any difference in tranfer of heat from the engine compaired to the HEV. I have not heard of this CCP package and can't see any reference to it on the KIA Canada web site. I know they do offer heated rear seats on the upper model, but that doesn't mean that it has an electrical air heater for the car. They do install an electric heat booster for the defrost/defog that will help heat up that function, but it only kicks in under certain conditions and it is a supliment to the engine and not a replacement.


-25 degrees is pretty darn cold. The original poster didn't really give any indication as to where they live, so I took a guess it was not in BC or else they would be taking advantage of the generous NDP goverment rebates and not asking or even considering an HEV as it likely costs more than the PHEV after rebate.
 

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kia.ca is pretty useless to look up features and options. Couldn't find any mention of CCP either. As Canadian Ioniqs can be fitted with CCP (cold climate package), I assumed Niros could as well. Certainly the EV has it standard or as an option. Details to date on the US Niro EV has standard heat pump.
 

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Thanks for all the great info, everyone. I feel a little better about not getting the PHEV now. I will miss the Green plate and, small, bragging rights. Having said that, my dealer said they would get us a green plate, but I'm thinking that could backfire in the future.

Other we're looking forward to the new car, any advice for a first time Niro Owner?
 

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-25 degrees is pretty darn cold. The original poster didn't really give any indication as to where they live, so I took a guess it was not in BC or else they would be taking advantage of the generous NDP goverment rebates and not asking or even considering an HEV as it likely costs more than the PHEV after rebate.
Yeah, between the cold and about $5,000 more ($2,500 with rebate), and the amount of long distance driving, and cold, it's probably not worth it. Thanks.
 

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Both are really great cars, and I am sure you can't in the long run go wrong with either. The only other consideration is the length of time you generally pan on keeping a car. If you are like many and generally grow tires of yours after 3-4 years, perhaps even stretching it to 5 years, then the break even point will likely favour the HEV over the PHEV. However, if you are someone who likes what they drive and will keep at it until it simply fails and can see keeping it for 8-12 years, then the PHEV starts to make more sense.


I got the HEV as I saw that the cost of fuel is an issue and it's only going to get worse. I paid more for a new Hybrid as I worked out that the savings on cost of fuel will more than cover the difference. And as gas costs go up the savings will grow larger each year.
 

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I have the PHEV, and love it, but keep in mind that the $4k price differential (after the rebate brings it down from a $6k differential) is going to take a LONG time to break even on. By my rough estimate, it would take probably 2,000 full battery charges before you break even. At 2 full charges per day, every day, that'll take 3 years.

In my case, the US tax credits made the cost differential break even the day I bought it, so it was kind of a no-brainer to pick the PHEV, but without those credits I'd have probably chosen the regular HEV.
 

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I know this thread is a few months old, but is it still that hard to get the PHEV up north? Im in Atlanta and I know a couple of dealers here having sort of a fire sale to get rid of their PHEVs...
 

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FYI, I bought the PHEV. I figure I'll recoup the initial cost delta (compared to HEV) in just under 4 years. If I go 80 km/h I can get a range of 70 km's. Which works out great when I visit some family members, go 70 km's, charge for free (thank you chargepoint) and then head back home. :)


P.S. My price delta is 10k, as the lowest level PHEV available in Canada is the EX premium. But on the flip side gas is expensive and electricity is cheap in Canada.
 
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