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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all! I recently traded in my gen 1 volt for a Niro LX PHEV. So far, so great! The volt has a great forum community, so I'm hoping the Niro will too. Feel free to ask any questions, or give any advice/tips! Thanks!
 

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Welcome to the forum! I think it's different kinds of owners for each car?
What made you decide to go with the Niro instead of another full electric?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'll get a full EV eventually, but they (or the infrastructure) aren't where I need them to be yet.

There is very minimal charging infrastructure in the places I usually drive, plus I make fairly regular trips over 200 miles roundtrip where there aren't any charging places for the whole trip unless I drive fairly far out of the way. Until a 300+ mile range EV is more widely available or better charging infrastructure is built up, I don't think I'd be able to make that trip in the winter without issues.

The Niro is fairly similar to the volt for my uses. I'm able to keep the Niro in EV mode until it forces me into hybrid mode, and that range has been similar to all-electric range of the volt. A major benefit to the Niro PHEV is the efficiency is much greater than the 2012 volt. I'm getting approximately the same electric range on less of a charge. And the gas/hybrid mileage is leagues ahead with the Niro. I've been seeing 50-60mpg in the Niro compared with 25-38mpg in the volt.

It will be interesting to see what kind of electric range I can get out of the Niro in the summer.
 

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I hope you plan on logging your range on a site like Fuelly along with any other details that would be helpful especially as components break in and produce numbers that are eventually normal.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I hope you plan on logging your range on a site like Fuelly along with any other details that would be helpful especially as components break in and produce numbers that are eventually normal.
What do you mean "eventually normal"?
 

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Closer to specified efficiency versus real world results. Looking around at numbers on Fuelly, the fewer miles reported, the more skewed the results are. However, better mileage will come mostly from better driving practices, not engine "break in". That doesn't do much on modern cars or motorcycles for that matter. Engines are built to far higher tolerances that previously.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Closer to specified efficiency versus real world results. Looking around at numbers on Fuelly, the fewer miles reported, the more skewed the results are. However, better mileage will come mostly from better driving practices, not engine "break in". That doesn't do much on modern cars or motorcycles for that matter. Engines are built to far higher tolerances that previously.
So you think I will get Better mileage than 50-60mpg in hybrid mode?
 

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Unlikely. But many PHEV owners are reporting mpg of over 70 depending on how often they charge and how long their trips are. If all your trips are limited to 20 miles and recharged fully afterwards, you could easily get over 100 mpg total. Toss electricity costs into total fuel costs and you will end up way ahead with that driving pattern.

But PHEVs are the result of incentives for buyers and regulations on total fleet mileage for manufacturers. When those go away, so will PHEV's. No one will want to pay the extra real cost over a hybrid, or the total lifetime savings on an EV.
 

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Unlikely. But many PHEV owners are reporting mpg of over 70 depending on how often they charge and how long their trips are. If all your trips are limited to 20 miles and recharged fully afterwards, you could easily get over 100 mpg total. Toss electricity costs into total fuel costs and you will end up way ahead with that driving pattern.

But PHEVs are the result of incentives for buyers and regulations on total fleet mileage for manufacturers. When those go away, so will PHEV's. No one will want to pay the extra real cost over a hybrid, or the total lifetime savings on an EV.
Oh, ok. Well I was very specific that I was only referring to the mpg in hybrid mode. Using mpg when part of the drive was in EV is a meaningless number that just looks nice. By that metric I'm getting 270mpg, so, meaningless.

I don't agree with any of your assertions. You state them as if they are fact. You completely ignore the advantages of EV driving combined with not having to worry about charging infrastructure. Not looking to get into a debate, but it's ridiculous when people make blanket statements with nothing but opinion to back it up.
 

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So the answer to your question is that the Niro PHEV gets worse mileage than the Niro hybrid when the extra plug in power is exhausted. That is reflected in the lower EPA ratings. There are some who buy the PHEV simply because it was cheaper than the HEV after rebates and don't plug in. Negative environmental benefit. You can call such statements my opinion if you want to. It costs a lot more to make PHEVs, and you likely would not have bought one if it cost you (depending on where you live) say $5,000 more than the HEV. Pretty hard to pencil out. $5,000 buys a lot of gasoline. Again, manufacturers basically have to make them due to government regulations. Not much of a market there for them otherwise.

Glad it is working for you, at the taxpayer's expense. I could also point out that many Americans, myself included, would get no tax rebates from purchasing a PHEV as we don't make enough - it is not a refundable tax rebate. So in that regard, it is a regressive tax that benefits wealthier Americans at the expense of lower wage earners. Opinion? Sure! If you want to call it that.
 

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So the answer to your question is that the Niro PHEV gets worse mileage than the Niro hybrid when the extra plug in power is exhausted. That is reflected in the lower EPA ratings. There are some who buy the PHEV simply because it was cheaper than the HEV after rebates and don't plug in. Negative environmental benefit. You can call such statements my opinion if you want to. It costs a lot more to make PHEVs, and you likely would not have bought one if it cost you (depending on where you live) say $5,000 more than the HEV. Pretty hard to pencil out. $5,000 buys a lot of gasoline. Again, manufacturers basically have to make them due to government regulations. Not much of a market there for them otherwise.

Glad it is working for you, at the taxpayer's expense. I could also point out that many Americans, myself included, would get no tax rebates from purchasing a PHEV as we don't make enough - it is not a refundable tax rebate. So in that regard, it is a regressive tax that benefits wealthier Americans at the expense of lower wage earners. Opinion? Sure! If you want to call it that.
Well put...I'm staying the Hybrid route again for at least thru my 3 yr. lease term. I don't think I'll buy into the PHEV form factor until it offers at least 60 miles per charge and even better if they can figure out how to make the regen aspect work towards charging the EV battery as it rolls thru it's use cycle. Otherwise the extra weight isn't really worth it. BTW I'm getting 48+ mpg on my new '18 Touring Niro. Impressive to me. Beats the snot out of my '15 Ford C-Max where I could only get 42+ mpg. Oh and no range anxiety on a pure Hybrid...there's still gas everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What a welcoming post.

Hopefully all PHEV owners see how you feel about them and avoid this place. Thanks for showing me what type of people this forum is actually filled with.
 

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What a welcoming post.

Hopefully all PHEV owners see how you feel about them and avoid this place. Thanks for showing me what type of people this forum is actually filled with.
Huh? I didn't say one word about PHEV owners and they got a great deal. I was ranting at government interference in the marketplace. You must agree that is a distortion. Would you pay $5,000 more than the hybrid if you didn't get subsidies? Personally, I really did not want the extra 300 pounds and the PHEV would have done me more harm than good on my cross country trips, but believe me, had I been eligible for subsidies, I probably would have ended up with one. That's market distortion.

I don't know where you can go to avoid full discussions about the benefits and downsides of the cars we own, nor why you would want to. This is the biggest Niro forum, but I spend a lot of time on an even bigger forum for Ioniqs (same drivetrain). That one is more international so there is a lot of discussion about politics in a number of countries. Interesting how heavily their tax and business policies (right down to entering central London) affects which car they buy. Niros are occasionally discussed there as they are on PriusChat.

I get what you are saying, you don't like my tone, how I phrase stuff. Those are ad hominem attacks, or personal attacks versus discussing content. You are pretty mild, but that is not PC on forums that are meant to share and learn and have a community. Put me on ignore (if this forum has that feature), leave, or play nice recognizing that the benefit of a forum is you will get many points of view. Otherwise, Welcome! I didn't notice you were new, I was just responding to your queries.
 
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