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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
I got some info that Europeen PHEV Niro's has a full charge of 35 miles (58km) instead of our 26 miles (42km) for US and Canada. both model's has the same 8.9 KWh battery etc..etc..! :eek:
Is there a conversion for Europeen miles to US miles ?? :confused:
 

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The real question is the conversion from NCAP to EPA. NCAP is wildly optimistic for both mpg (local equivalents) and EV range. There is only one mile.
 

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The reason for this discrepancy is two-fold: The US EPA rated the Niro’s EV range in Nautical miles, rather than Statute miles or International Miles, and when running in Nautical Mode, the Niro is less efficient than it is in Europe where Nautical Mode isn’t a supported option.


You should take a look at chapter 10 of the owner’s manual, which describes how to find Nautical Mode under the User Settings menu on the instrument cluster. If you haven’t tried this yet, you really should, because it’s a hoot. You drive across the beach and into about six inches of water, and then you switch into Nautical Mode. Pontoons pop out of the fender wells and a paddle wheel pops out from under the rear bumper. This is not recommended for ocean faring (due to salt water corrosion concerns) but it’s a great way to get across a lake.


Your question inspired me to look into the question of how universal the “mile” is. Wikipedia has a rather interesting discussion on this topic. Aside from being slightly mistaken about the idea that there is only one mile, I suspect that you’ll get better “mileage” from yticolev’s response than you will from mine.
 

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The reason for this discrepancy is two-fold: The US EPA rated the Niro’s EV range in Nautical miles, rather than Statute miles or International Miles, and when running in Nautical Mode, the Niro is less efficient than it is in Europe where Nautical Mode isn’t a supported option.


You should take a look at chapter 10 of the owner’s manual, which describes how to find Nautical Mode under the User Settings menu on the instrument cluster. If you haven’t tried this yet, you really should, because it’s a hoot. You drive across the beach and into about six inches of water, and then you switch into Nautical Mode. Pontoons pop out of the fender wells and a paddle wheel pops out from under the rear bumper. This is not recommended for ocean faring (due to salt water corrosion concerns) but it’s a great way to get across a lake..
That would be soooo great to have.. a Niro "wet nellie"... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #5
But i still cannot understand that Europeen PHEV Niro has a full charge of 35 miles (58km) instead of our 26 miles (42km) for US and Canada even with the same 8.9 KWh battery.



- Sweden
- France
- Germany
- UK
etc..
 

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Your question inspired me to look into the question of how universal the “mile” is. Wikipedia has a rather interesting discussion on this topic. Aside from being slightly mistaken about the idea that there is only one mile, I suspect that you’ll get better “mileage” from yticolev’s response than you will from mine.
Funny post about nautical miles! I stand corrected on the standard mile, it apparently does vary by a few hundredths of a meter (funny how they mixed up the units) at certain points in time. All the other "mile" definitions have other titles, like "London mile", or "nautical mile".
But i still cannot understand that Europeen PHEV Niro has a full charge of 35 miles (58km) instead of our 26 miles (42km) for US and Canada even with the same 8.9 KWh battery.
Same battery, same conditions, same distance traveled. Different country, different government body, different testing regimen, different range estimate. If you are willing to go 15 mph, you too can achieve 35 miles or even more!
 

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Same battery, same conditions, same distance traveled. Different country, different government body, different testing regimen, different range estimate. If you are willing to go 15 mph, you too can achieve 35 miles or even more!
Dear Doctor Velocity, when you are saying that "same distance traveled"....


Are you saying that a 35 miles range is the same as a 26 miles range ?? ... So that means that our PHEV over here in the USA and Canada, will go faster then a PHEV in the UK ?? :confused:

or unless in Europe, they all do drive at 15MPH.. ;)


Seriously, you're applying that in Europe, they change the "range" estimate to give more autonomy on their vehicule.!? do you have facts for this ?
 

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With your PHEV, do you check the odometer to make sure that you are getting your exact 26 miles each time? Heck, the HEV that I have, why does it count down the KM remaining when I am driving around in EV mode as the battery is close to full charge and the engine it turned off. The distance remaining is just a software trick as I don't know how it knows how to calibrate itself. all I can do is take the difference between the odomiter readings each fill up and look how much gas went into the tank and do the math. Sometimes the number is way off.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
With your PHEV, do you check the odometer to make sure that you are getting your exact 26 miles each time?
No... It's not about a odometer calculation, but it's more when you leave the house after a full charge, it says 42km (26 miles) .. but on the specs sheet on the same model in Germany, it says 58km on a full charge and 35 miles on a UK model.

So why 2 standards on the same model. Some PHEV contacts owners that i talk too in Europe does think the same thing as me.! Same battery, same system.. 42km is 42km and 58km is 58... It's like the "Caramilk" secret.! wheres the catch?
 

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No... It's not about a odometer calculation, but it's more when you leave the house after a full charge, it says 42km (26 miles) .. but on the specs sheet on the same model in Germany, it says 58km on a full charge and 35 miles on a UK model.

So why 2 standards on the same model. Some PHEV contacts owners that i talk too in Europe does think the same thing as me.! Same battery, same system.. 42km is 42km and 58km is 58... It's like the "Caramilk" secret.! wheres the catch?
I



I am sure if you wanted, KIA could make you car say you will get 60km per charge. ****, go for broke and lets put in 123km. its a beautiful number and it will have ZERO to do with reality. The truith is that the number it says on the screen has ZERO to do with the ACTUAL DISTANCE that the car can and will do before the battery is depleated to the point that the ICE must kick in and the PHEV runs like it was an HEV. Why does the Niro in Europe get far better MPG? are they not the same engine and same battery packs? same transmission? Or is it because Europe has a different set of critera to testing a vehicle than they do in North America. And wouldn't that also directly impact the number you get for your battery?



So, YES it is totaly all about looking at your Odometer and seeing what distance you are actually getting and nothing about this magical number that is put on the screen.
 

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No... It's not about a odometer calculation, but it's more when you leave the house after a full charge, it says 42km (26 miles) .. but on the specs sheet on the same model in Germany, it says 58km on a full charge and 35 miles on a UK model.

So why 2 standards on the same model. Some PHEV contacts owners that i talk too in Europe does think the same thing as me.! Same battery, same system.. 42km is 42km and 58km is 58... It's like the "Caramilk" secret.! wheres the catch?

OK, I had my fun with your post, thanks for putting up with me. Do you happen to have a link to a document that says 35 miles in the UK? If so, I'd be curious to see the additional details of what they might be saying.



My driving and charging habits are such that it makes it hard to keep a sharp eye on this, but I do have the impression that my actual EV range on a full charge is often a tad less than 26 miles. I almost never run the heat, but I do often run the headlights and (at this time of year) the heated seats, and that might have something to do with it.
 

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I can jump on the interstate at 75 and get a bit under 20 miles or I can diddle around town and get a bit over 30. There can likely be testing procedures in place that get less than 20 or more than 30. 35 miles is certainly possible but wildly optomistic.

I have watched it very carefully, EV only and no heat.
 

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OK, I had my fun with your post, thanks for putting up with me. Do you happen to have a link to a document that says 35 miles in the UK? If so, I'd be curious to see the additional details of what they might be saying.
I have add up some pics that have been "croped" from different kia country in Europe in km..

France, Portugal, Germany, etc...

For the UK, the PDF does not display the exact info "35 miles EV autonomy" in the spreadsheet like the others, but i found a review that comes from the UK with a 36 miles.

https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/kme/uk/en/assets/vehicles/NiroPHEV/Kia-Niro-Combi-PHEV.pdf


But i found something interesting. The "New European Driving Cycle" NEDC and the the WLTP.

"The NEDC, which is supposed to represent the typical usage of a car in Europe, is repeatedly criticised for delivering economy-figures which are unachievable in reality. It consists of four repeated ECE-15 urban driving cycles (UDC) and one Extra-Urban driving cycle (EUDC)."

@Roadkill401 . i know what you mean, dont worry.. ;)
 

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Thanks for posting the docs and links.


According to my instrument cluster, I'm currently getting a little better than 700 mpg, but that's because I've driven most of the last few hundred miles in EV mode on short trips, and I've probably burned less than a pint of gas in that time.



There are people on this forum who have claimed some pretty spectacular fuel economy, well over 50 mpg, but I see that the PDF link you posted claims 74 mpg for "urban drive cycle". Maybe Wayne Gerdes could pull that off, but I doubt that the average driver could unless they were driving like I do (recharging before exhausting the EV range). There's a Niro forum in Europe:it might be interesting in inquire with those folks about what kind of economy they are seeing.


But I kind of think your finding on NEDC having questionable statistics corroborates yticolev's comments about NCAP.(maybe he actually meant to refer to NEDC rather than NCAP?).
 

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Nearly all of my driving is on limited-access highways through hilly areas, between 60-70 mph, on EV-only. (I bought my Niro PHEV 12/1/18 and live in a northern state, so I've been using my heat every single day, and yes the gas gauge does go down.) My work commute is 20 miles, and on arrival the battery indicator always says there are about 8 miles left. I'm more than pleased with my EV-only mileage!
 

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I tried the nautical mode but the pontoons failed to deploy.... how do I dry this darn thing out? It should have been labeled "submarine mode".
 

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I came to my PHEV Niro from a 2013 Ford Cmax. Almost identical technology, but they recalculate the estimate EV miles from a full charge based on the actual results from the last drive. So when new in 2013, 7.2 kWh battery, uses up to 5.2 for EV only (reserves 1.7 for hybrid mode)town driving, I would get estimated 22 miles. Depends on how heavy your foot it. At the end before I traded the Cmax for the Niro PHEV, with battery degradation after 5 years, down to 15. What is a better number to observe is the charge in kWh remaining, which unfortunately cannot be displayed. The Torque Pro app which works off of a bluetooth OBD2 reader did have that algorithm (provided by a Ford Forum user) for the Cmax PHEV, but I cannot yet find a Kia Niro calculation to read it out. In the hybrid display the % battery does not correlate to EV miles.
 
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