Kia Niro Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I've had my Niro 2017 phev for about a week now and really pleased with it, but have noticed when starting in the morning with EV mode selected and the battery full showing 30 miles of range, it runs in HV mode with the engine and displays "charging" on the display where you can see which energy source is being used.
This is for the first few miles?
Is this usual and if so what are the circumstances when ev mode cant be used when the battery is full other than excessive acceleration?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
If you are using heat or sport mode, the ICE will run. Also, steep inclines, but that is similar to acceleration. I haven't seen it happen, but even downhill, for engine braking purposes, I am told.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I'm not in sport mode, so must be heat purposes, do you mean cabin a/c heating or engine/motor temperature?
Thanks.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
630 Posts
If the battery is full and you are doing some heavy regen (like I do, pull out of the garage and immediately go down a steep hill), the engine will start to provide some compression braking. It's not very effective in my opinion, but that's the way they've programmed it. Since the battery is full, there's nowhere for the regen energy to go, so they fire up the ICE to help with the deceleration. But yes, if the HVAC is calling for cabin heat the ICE will also start, as the PHEV doesn't have any sort of resistive heat, nor a heat pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
On 12/13/18 Roadkill said: The part exists.. https://kiaparts.penceauto.com/p/Kia...7192G2000.html

Not sure if he means that the part "exists" (is installed in every PHEV) or if it "exists" as an option that can be installed for those who are interested in having a resistance heating element in their PHEV. Can anyone clarify if it is std OEM equip in PHEVs or optional? Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,188 Posts
If it is in the wiring diagram, it should be there. The effect is small enough I doubt you would be able to readily tell absent going through the wiring with a volt/ammeter.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
630 Posts
On 12/13/18 Roadkill said: The part exists.. https://kiaparts.penceauto.com/p/Kia...7192G2000.html

Not sure if he means that the part "exists" (is installed in every PHEV) or if it "exists" as an option that can be installed for those who are interested in having a resistance heating element in their PHEV. Can anyone clarify if it is std OEM equip in PHEVs or optional? Thanks
Well, that link to KiaParts doesn't work. :confused:

EDIT: Ah, had to remove some junk from the search box once I got there. Here's what it says it fits:

This product fits 8 vehicle variants.
Kia: 1 models, 8 variants for 2019.

Ya know what, I think this is the blower resistor that is used to adjust the fan speed. I don't think it's a heating element at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
Well, that link to KiaParts doesn't work. :confused:

EDIT: Ah, had to remove some junk from the search box once I got there. Here's what it says it fits:

This product fits 8 vehicle variants.
Kia: 1 models, 8 variants for 2019.

Ya know what, I think this is the blower resistor that is used to adjust the fan speed. I don't think it's a heating element at all.
Nah, the description is weird, although a heating element is technically a resistor. :D

Here's the component diagram. It's an itty bitty heater.

Kia Niro : Heater Unit Components and components location : Heater
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,188 Posts
It is called a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) heater. Not the same as a resistive heater used to heat entire cabin by itself. Very low current, but yes, resistive heat applied to cabin heater. Small effect, but apparently engineers find it helpful in at least warming the air just above "turn off the fan now until engine warms up". I will say the Niro is about twice as fast to supply heat as any other car I've owned, but this is due almost entirely to a water loop around the exhaust just behind the catalytic converter that feeds heat in to the cabin heater loop.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
630 Posts
Nah, the description is weird, although a heating element is technically a resistor. :D

Here's the component diagram. It's an itty bitty heater.

Kia Niro : Heater Unit Components and components location : Heater
If that drawing is to scale, then yes it's much larger than the fan speed resistors I've seen before. The previous link had no scale to it, which is what threw me off. :eek:

I would be curious to know what it's electrical rating is, but I agree that it will offer some amount of resistive heating. I agree with yticolev that it's likely a low current, low wattage heater, and other than helping out with an initial warming of the air it probably doesn't amount to much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Just to update, that early into my journey I turned down the heating this morning from 22°c to 20°c and indeed the EV mode flicked on so it was my heating setting calling for the ICS.
I really want to know how to use the EV as much as possible and understand it's running conditions so really appreciate the replys, Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
If that drawing is to scale, then yes it's much larger than the fan speed resistors I've seen before. The previous link had no scale to it, which is what threw me off. :eek:

I would be curious to know what it's electrical rating is, but I agree that it will offer some amount of resistive heating. I agree with yticolev that it's likely a low current, low wattage heater, and other than helping out with an initial warming of the air it probably doesn't amount to much.
I can't find the post, but I'm fairly certain it's a 1kW unit, which assuming it's powered by the 12V accessory bus means it could be drawing as much as 80A which is anything but low current. That's actually not completely unbelievable as my '10 Golf TDI had a similar heater. That's one reason that VW TDIs came from the factory with much more powerful batteries and alternators than the comparable gas version. Glow plugs and other resistance heaters draw some serious wattage.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
630 Posts
If it's 1 kW, then I can't believe it's driven by the 12v bus. 80 amps would require huge power cables, something like AWG 4 or 2. That's physically huge, and I can't believe there's wires anywhere near that size under the dash. Home hair dryers run about 1.8 kW, and they draw about 16 amps at 110 vac, so they can get away with the small wire.

Yes, diesel glow plugs take a lot of power. My old '80 Rabbit diesel didn't have wires that ran from one plug to the next. It was a flat strap of metal that connected the four GPs together. But the wire that fed them wasn't more than about 12 gauge, maybe 10 gauge at most. But it was a very short run from the relay to the first plug. I can't find a spec that shows what a typical TDI glow plug draws. But I do know they use a very fast heating tip, that has a quick initial surge, then tapers the current down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
If it's 1 kW, then I can't believe it's driven by the 12v bus. 80 amps would require huge power cables, something like AWG 4 or 2. That's physically huge, and I can't believe there's wires anywhere near that size under the dash. Home hair dryers run about 1.8 kW, and they draw about 16 amps at 110 vac, so they can get away with the small wire.

Yes, diesel glow plugs take a lot of power. My old '80 Rabbit diesel didn't have wires that ran from one plug to the next. It was a flat strap of metal that connected the four GPs together. But the wire that fed them wasn't more than about 12 gauge, maybe 10 gauge at most. But it was a very short run from the relay to the first plug. I can't find a spec that shows what a typical TDI glow plug draws. But I do know they use a very fast heating tip, that has a quick initial surge, then tapers the current down.
Well, the TDI's aux heater was obviously driven from the 12V supply. Glowplugs draw around 10A a piece, so call it 40A for a 4 cylinder TDI. Throw in the coolant plugs that some VWs run and you're up to 60A or so. With that in mind the glow plug harness on my '01 TDI is shockingly thin for the load.

Looking at the chassis wiring chart, the Niro could get away with 6 or 7 AWG, which seems pretty reasonable.

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
630 Posts
Remember that the glow plugs only run for a very short time. Unless the Niro heater is also time limited, I wouldn't trust that wire size. But maybe it does have a timer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
1kW seems relatively tame in comparison to resistive heaters on many BEVs. The Bolt and Volt resistive element heaters used upwards of 6kW of power to run their heaters at max. From what I understand, the heat pump systems used by the e-Niro and others use much less power (2-3kW?).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
630 Posts
Yes, heat pumps are far more energy efficient. I have a heat pump in my home, and it does a nice job. Will absolutely want one when I get a BEV.

This morning I cranked my heat on max to see if I could feel anything approaching warm air when I initially enabled the HVAC. I didn't feel anything that felt near 1kW worth of heat. I realize that passing through the internal ductwork would drop the temp somewhat, but I really didn't feel anything I would call warmed. Since the car was garaged overnight, the car itself wasn't really cold inside, so I would have thought it would feel a little bit warmed before the ICE provided heated water to the core. Not saying there wasn't any, but I have my doubts it's a kilowatt. Would be nice if a spec could could be found.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
502 Posts
the part is mostly misunderstood. It is a safety part not a heater. If you read the manual it clearly shows that the part is for the defroster. To get it working, you need to turn the defrost on and the heat dial up to max. It is quite effective in removing frost from the inside of the car for those of us in the colder winter climates. I have tried it and works very well in just those cercomstances. My old Ford Edge didn't have anything like it and you would put on the defrost and it would not do anything for a good 10 minutes if just left idleing, or if you drove, it would start to work when the engine started to heat up about 5 minutes under some load. By comparison, the Niro if I just turn on the car with the defrost and heat to max, it will clear the whole window in under 3 minutes. But only if you turn the heat to max.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top