[pcouchy]

Like many, it seems, I am still getting to grips with how the climate control system works in my new Niro EV.

I currently have the 'Auto Defog' setting ticked, which should enable: "Automatic activation of various defog functions based on the level of humidity in the vehicle cabin"

This might sound like a stupid question, but does auto defog work if the climate control system is switched off? In other words, does 'automatic activation' include automatically starting the climate control system or does it just mean it detemines the settings needed (like AC, Temp, Fan speed)?

I normally like to drive without the climate control system on to extend range and just use the heated seats and steering wheel for comfort. However, on certain days I notice the windows starting to fog up and so have to manually start the climate control system to demist.It may be that the humidity levels haven't reached a high enough level for the system to kick in, but I just wondered if anyone had any experience or thoughts on this?

 

[Johnxyz]

When the auto climate control system is in off it is off completely.

The best resource for understanding the auto climate control is the manual itself -it is complicated.

The best approach is to set your auto climate to 72 degrees and never give it another thought as long as you own the car.

There are probably infinite variations in its operation when you try to manually manipulate it.

 

[TheAirman]

Like many, it seems, I am still getting to grips with how the climate control system works in my new Niro EV.

I currently have the 'Auto Defog' setting ticked, which should enable: "Automatic activation of various defog functions based on the level of humidity in the vehicle cabin"

This might sound like a stupid question, but does auto defog work if the climate control system is switched off? In other words, does 'automatic activation' include automatically starting the climate control system or does it just mean it detemines the settings needed (like AC, Temp, Fan speed)?

I normally like to drive without the climate control system on to extend range and just use the heated seats and steering wheel for comfort. However, on certain days I notice the windows starting to fog up and so have to manually start the climate control system to demist.It may be that the humidity levels haven't reached a high enough level for the system to kick in, but I just wondered if anyone had any experience or thoughts on this?

I do the same thing.

Your windows fog due to lack of airflow from turning off the system. The range extension comes from turning off that heater.

The defogging comes from running the air conditioning compressor and mixing the dry air in the system. But your AC compressor really doesn't affect your range that much. (You didn't mention if you have a heat pump)

Try this:
Keep your system on, but turn off the heat manually with the infotainment button. You get the best of both worlds. With the "auto activation" ticked, the windows will auto defog, but you'll have no heat, but extended range. Unless........ you have a heat pump.

Like Johnxyz said above, it's infinitely variable.

 

[Tommy_D]

I normally like to drive without the climate control system on to extend range and just use the heated seats and steering wheel for comfort. However, on certain days I notice the windows starting to fog up and so have to manually start the climate control system to demist.It may be that the humidity levels haven't reached a high enough level for the system to kick in, but I just wondered if anyone had any experience or thoughts on this?

Thats how I run my '22 EV. I rarely have to turn the fan on and when I do, it gets rid of the fog quickly. I run my temp at 62 degrees. It was a mild winter this year, so there wasnt much of a need to crank the heat in the car. The seat heater and steering wheel heater help quite a lot. HVAC at 62 took the chill out of the air when temps were ~10-20 degrees F. When it got colder than that I turned the heat up a bit. My Niro is still averaging 4.7 miles/kWh over the 16k+ miles I've put on it in the last year.

 

[pcouchy]

Thanks everyone for the helpful info and tips.

For some reason I don't have a 'heat' button on the climate settings (see image below - might be because I don't have a heat pump?), which means that when climate control is on, estimated range seems to be reduced regardless of what cabin temperature I set.

I'll do some experimenting to get the right temperature. Like Tommy_D, the fan quickly defogs the car and the heated seat and steering wheel are sufficient.

 

[SDeemer]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Your photo shows that the climate control system is set to AUTO (lowest speed), A/C is OFF, but it appears that the driver's side center vent is fully closed. Also, not an issue unless you have a passenger, but the temperature controls are in SYNC mode. I don't know if setting the driver side to a different temperature will make a difference, but it's worth a try.

See: Owner's Manual, pp. 5-130-135

I don't recall any car that I have owned or driven since 1962 having a HEAT ON/OFF button. The heater is always on, with a heater core that is controlled by the temperature setting. Those with built-in A/C have always had an A/C button, although I have had at least one car that made it impossible to turn off A/C in defrost mode.

 

[pcouchy]

I'll keep experimenting with the settings to see if I can learn anything more, but thanks for all the suggestions.
Here's where I've got to so far:
Auto Defog requires the climate control to be switched on / auto (thanks Johnxyz) to work.
When climate control is on with auto defog enabled, the A/C seems to come on automatically as needed, presumably when the humidity reaches a certain level (clever!).
When climate control is on the estimated range drops by about 10% regardless of the set temperature for the cabin. Changing the temperature does not appear to affect the estimated range, only switching it on or off at the master switch on the dash.

I don't recall any car that I have owned or driven since 1962 having a HEAT ON/OFF button. The heater is always on, with a heater core that is controlled by the temperature setting. Those with built-in A/C have always had an A/C button, although I have had at least one car that made it impossible to turn off A/C in defrost mode.

Normally I'd 100% agree with you there, except that my version of the user manual (P5-75) appears to have a 'HEAT' button (see button '13' below on type A button bar) - I've no idea what it does and the manual doesn't explain either but I'm assuming it relates to a Heat pump (which I don't have) and it doesn't appear on my button bar. In actual fact my dash doesn't resemble either Type A or Type B in the image below, so the manual is not all that helpful in this case!

As I say - I'll keep playing and post back with any findings.

PS - I should probably mention that I'm in the UK, so the driver's side is on the right hand side as you look at the picture in my previous post. Also, I suspect the owner's manual is different as my section 5 only goes to P98

 

[SDeemer]

Interesting differences. I knew you were in the UK, but your display looks just like mine, except for C vs F temperatures.

I just re-read this topic from the top, and realized that I had missed the fact that you have an EV, not a HEV or PHEV. That explains why your Niro has a HEAT button — there is no ICE to provide heat, only the battery.

 

[SDeemer]

...I'm assuming it relates to a Heat pump (which I don't have) and it doesn't appear on my button bar. In actual fact my dash doesn't resemble either Type A or Type B in the image below, so the manual is not all that helpful in this case!

I just downloaded the EV manual, and saw this explanation on page 5-82:

​

A positive temperature coefficient heating element is an electrical resistance heater. I have a heat pump for my house, with a PTC for supplementary heating (like this morning when the temperature dropped to -3°C). Resistance heating uses a lot of power.

 

[atc98092]

Resistance heating uses a lot of power.

Yep. My Bolt would draw a bit over 7kW with the heater going full bore. Fortunately, once the cabin warms the power draw tapers off. I don't think it was using more than 1kW to maintain the temp. Of course, opening the door often would lose a lot of heat.

 

[Tommy_D]

I don't recall any car that I have owned or driven since 1962 having a HEAT ON/OFF button. The heater is always on, with a heater core that is controlled by the temperature setting.

Electric cars don't have traditional heater cores because they don't have inefficient combustion engines that waste 30%+ of their energy efficiency on residual heat. You are manually turning on and off a heat pump or heating element to supply heat to the cabin.

 

[SDeemer]

Agreed, but the question remains, if he has a 2023 EV, why does the OP's display not have a HEAT button? This morning I downloaded the 2023 KIA Niro EV — Owner's Manual - RHD (UK, Australia). Oddly, the Type B climate control display does not match the OP's, which leads me to think that the Owner's Manual has the wrong diagram for RH drive models

Does anybody reading this have a North American 2023 Niro EV for comparison? I have no stake in this; just trying to solve a mystery.

 

[vandarin]

I have a US 2023 EV wave without the heat pump, and my panel has a Heat button, but only a single control for vent selection. (Type A)

 

[TheAirman]

Agreed, but the question remains, if he has a 2023 EV, why does the OP's display not have a HEAT button? This morning I downloaded the 2023 KIA Niro EV — Owner's Manual - RHD (UK, Australia). Oddly, the Type B climate control display does not match the OP's, which leads me to think that the Owner's Manual has the wrong diagram for RH drive models

View attachment 8455​

Does anybody reading this have a North American 2023 Niro EV for comparison? I have no stake in this; just trying to solve a mystery.

Hope this helps.

You can see my A/C and Heat are both on. Fan is in Auto. Vent selection is the little stick figure, and I am in auto now. But my climate system overall is NOT in auto. Only the fan and vent. I control the heat and A/C and temp. Auto Defog is in auto.

Mystery solved?

 

[SDeemer]

Hope this helps.

View attachment 8459

You can see my A/C and Heat are both on. Fan is in Auto. Vent selection is the little stick figure, and I am in auto now. But my climate system overall is NOT in auto. Only the fan and vent. I control the heat and A/C and temp. Auto Defog is in auto.

Mystery solved?

Not really, because the photo provided by the OP shows no HEAT button. We may have to wait for a reply from a 2023 EV owner in the U.K.

 

[pcouchy]

Wow. Thanks all - this is definitely still a mystery! I will try and find some time over the weekend to mess about with the settings to see if that causes a HEAT button to appear, but I'm at a loss as to why it's not there when the manual says it should be.

It could be a European or UK model anomoly - does anyone on the forum with a UK or European model have a similar issue?

In case it's helpful - I have a Niro EV model '3' (which is mid-range in the UK). The full UK specification detail is here: Niro_Family_SS_V15_01.08.2022.pdf (kia.com)

 

[SDeemer]

Changing settings will not make a HEAT button appear. Based on your photo (which was extremely helpful) it simply does not exist. Your photo matches the drawing in the manual for the Type-B control panel, which does not have a HEAT button.

Have you asked a dealer?

 

[Tommy_D]

I wonder if the heat is all automatic in the new model. I mean, why should we have to manually turn on the heat when setting the temperature on the HVAC controls should tell the system if it needs to supply heat or not? Seems kind of dumb to have to turn the heat on.

 

[atc98092]

I wonder if the heat is all automatic in the new model.

It's all automatic on the older models as well. It's just the auto systems aren't always the best judge of exactly what is needed at a given time. It can sense humidity, but it can't actually see if there's fogging on any window. Myself, I rarely touched anything other than the temp setting. I left the fan speed and vent selection to the car, and rarely ever had any issues. One reason to have the ability to turn the heat on/off is EV range. I could do that in my Bolt, so I could leave the fan running but not call for cabin heat if I didn't need it. And I could see the difference in efficiency directly on my dash. With the previous model Niros, you could not run the system in fan only mode. You had to completely turn the HVAC off, which might lead to window fogging depending on the weather. Having the ability to toggle the heater, while leaving the fan running, could mean 10% or more improvement in efficiency. In the PHEV and EV, that translates into increased range.

 

[Tommy_D]

It's all automatic on the older models as well. It's just the auto systems aren't always the best judge of exactly what is needed at a given time. It can sense humidity, but it can't actually see if there's fogging on any window. Myself, I rarely touched anything other than the temp setting. I left the fan speed and vent selection to the car, and rarely ever had any issues. One reason to have the ability to turn the heat on/off is EV range. I could do that in my Bolt, so I could leave the fan running but not call for cabin heat if I didn't need it. And I could see the difference in efficiency directly on my dash. With the previous model Niros, you could not run the system in fan only mode. You had to completely turn the HVAC off, which might lead to window fogging depending on the weather. Having the ability to toggle the heater, while leaving the fan running, could mean 10% or more improvement in efficiency. In the PHEV and EV, that translates into increased range.

Oh, yeah, I know there is a full auto setting in the older cars, but they still offered full manual control as well. I'm a full manual kind of person, but I wonder if some regions of cars just eliminated the full manual option in the latest generation. It may be a small cost cutting measure by the manufacturer but when you manufacture 100's of thousands of vehicles those small dollars really add up in their total costs.

The last generation of Niro's does offer fan only mode without any auto settings. I use that setting pretty much every day. I just happen to have the auto-defog setting turned on because that's actually a really nice little feature, but you can disable it and do everything manually.