It seems a lot of posts lately asking about the 12v battery in the PHEV. My PHEV is a 2019, bought Sept 2019, and I'm not having any issues with a dead battery or anything.

But all this discussion begs the question: When the 12v battery does die, any thoughts about fitting a larger battery (larger in AH, certainly in size)? I've done this with my old ICE cars, just have to worry about not exceeding the available space under the hood.

My amateur take on this is that the brains of the Niro only senses the voltage of the battery, not the brand or size or AH or anything else. So as long as the battery fits and is bolted down, it should work.

I suspect the DC-DC converter is current limited, so charging (or maintaining) the 12v battery wouldn't be a problem. Besides this, the BS+ circuitry might never be called on (until the battery itself reaches the end of its life), and then if it tried to charge up the 12v it would probably time out at 20 minutes and quit, no harm done.

Maybe? Any thoughts?

The battery is in the right rear cargo area behind the rear wheel. It is a relatively small battery and I doubt there is room for a larger battery in size and likely AH is limited as well.
If you do find something though, it would be helpful if you let us know how that worked out - will have to be a long term test?

 

All you need is good voltage to start all the CPUs. The small size is because there is no benefit to a larger capacity battery. Only extra weight. Well, maybe someone with an extreme sound system would benefit.

 

That's it, that is all that the 12 battery does?
When driving with AC, heated seats/steering wheel... where does the juice come from - 12V or traction battery or directly from alternator?
How about when parked with radio & heated seats/wheel...

 

I'm not 100% sure how it works with a hybrid system, but...

All the electronics in the vehicle, minus the drive system, such as the radio, lights, modules etc, are powered by the alternator, but through the battery with it acting as a buffer.

Think of it like this...
The alternator is the power source or stream, that fills the battery like a lake. Then the power is drawn from the battery and then replenished by the alternator. This way things like the starter that require a large starting current, can draw on the battery like a reservoir, thus the stream/lake analogy. This way the alternator dose not get overwhelmed if that makes sense.

In a hybrid system like the Niro, it should be the same unless you are using the driving system battery to start the vehicle in an emergency. In that case I believe there is a cross over circuit.
Otherwise its pretty standard.

Unless you are having your battery die due to parasitic draw (power being pulled from the battery when the vehicle is off). Or you have an aftermarket sound system with big subs. You should be fine with the stock battery. Keep in mind that modern vehicles tax batteries much more than older ones. The strain on the 12 volt system is much greater with all the extra modules and electronics.
This shortens the life of batteries immensely. You should only expect 3 to 5 years tops of peak performance out of a regular folded battery in todays vehicles.

 

The 12 volt battery in my 2018 Niro PHEV is 3.5 years old and hasn't had any issues to date. Is the red blinking light on the dash powered by the 12 volt battery? If the red light was to stop blinking, would that be my first clue I'm going to discover my 12 volt battery has died?

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and say your assumption is correct. It is an extremely "small draw" light though...

 

Another immediate clue if you always keep you car doors locked is that you will go up to the car and your doors will not unlock.

 

I replaced a lead acid battery in my plane with a Li ion from Earth-X. It was expensive but it doesn't self drain and weighs a fraction of the Pb type

 

I do have a Niro PHEV and have taken the battery out to do a complete recharge it on a BatteryMinder Smart Charger
It does have the top post configuration and same spacing as the Interstate Battery.
The Interstate battery does come with the Vent Tube option.
The Spark Original Battery is actually the same as the Niro PHEV Original Battery.
The Spark is not only manufactured in South Korea it was also designed in South Korea for Chevrolet.

The PHEV Battery Compartment is tight so if I were going to buy a replacement battery I would get the exact dimension of that battery and make up a 3 dimensional model out of cardboard just to confirm it would sit square in the battery compartment.

Your question on the battery post spacing is an excellent question and one that is often overlooked in battery selection.

"Where Is the Spark Designed?
Being a product of GM South Korea, the Spark was designed in South Korea.
Taewan Kim oversaw the last major design effort for the Spark model in 2009."

 

Johnxyz -- Thanks, excellent information in your posts. The kind of stuff a PHEV owner needs to know, at some point.

 

Haven't read posts. But you can buy lithium batteries that are the same size as the PHEV 12V lead acid battery in the trunk and they have a larger capacity. Not sure if that will buy you much as the battery is charged up by the traction battery when required.

 

I did an online search for CMF45L-DIN to determine availability & cost just as an DIY FYI. Came up with nothing! Where does one get these aside from the Stealership?

 

Out of curiosity I called our local KIA Dealer Parts Department today and inquired about the 12v battery for our 2019 PHEV NIRO. They have always been helpful to me, I buy my oil filters and air filters from them when I need parts. They are friendly and courteous and don't seem to mind questions and helping out people.

The KIA Parts Service Specialist said they would be happy to provide the battery to me - they don't stock it-it would take a couple of days to a week to get it and the price was $157.48. I am located in the Central United States.

I also sent an email to Interstate Battery Company Support Department with all the Speciations for the KIA NIRO PHEV Battery and asked them if they could supply a recommendation for a replacement battery for the CMF45L-DIN.
I will post their answer when and if they reply.

Note: I have already searched their site and picked out a couple of their batteries that I think would work but they where all $20 to $50 more expensive than the all inclusive price of $157.48 KIA quoted me.

 

I checked the usual auto parts sources, both locally and on-line. I don't see anyone carrying a replacement battery for the Niro. I think you're stuck with the dealer for a replacement.

 

I wanted to follow up from my post #23. Interstate Battery did not help with a part number for their Battery.

However I did go to our Advanced Auto Part Store to check out a Battery they had in stock. It is a DieHard H4 Model with dimensions almost exactly like our PHEV Battery. Its price is $189.00- about $30 above what the KIA Dealer quoted for their battery that they would have to order.
The DieHard Battery has a 3 year year warranty.

Disclaimer: did not purchase as I don't need it and of course did not try to install it only visually looked at it to confirm measurement and compatibility with battery hold down system on our vehicle.

I was very happy to find a replacement battery locally at our towns part store.

Here is a link to the Battery (currently they have a sale on for $20 off on products over $100)

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

Link says down for maintenance but it takes you directly to the battery, note: it also has vent ports on each side to hook up existing vent hose

Of course the vehicle fitment software does not show if fitting the NIRO as the Niro PHEV is not popular enough to be researched and listed in many suppliers databases.

 

Why does this battery and the original have vent ports on each side but only one vent hose connection?

Why does this battery and the original have vent ports on each side but only one vent hose attachment? I would not for sure recommend this but I replaced my PHEV 12 volt with a NAPA part # 4026R($100). sealed battery they claim has low gas emitting and has vent ports that need some adapting because of shape. Battery fits in compartment but no room for mounting clamp on the bottom. NAPA also has a 6526R (about$120). Same size but 18 month replacement.

 

BCI Group 140R and DIN Group H4 batteries look like direct replacements for the OEM Rocket CMF45L-DIN battery.

 

So that you can mount the hose to either port to whichever best fits the application and cap the other port..

The battery in the battery group I recommended is an exact fit and will fit the existing clamps perfectly.

 

"other" port not capped on original battery?

 

I am a NIRO PHEV Owner

Here are actual pictures of the NIRO PHEV Battery showing the battery in the space it must go into, when it is installed, the ported vent side of the battery and the opposite plugged side of the battery.

To see the difference on the ported and plugged side of the battery you must be inquisitive enough to shine a flashlight into the inverted male port plug to see that it is indeed plugging the vent. Both the inverted male plug and the port fitting can be switched from side to side to accommodate different applications. This would be common to almost every vent ported battery ever made. If your inverted male plugged port was punched open someone has butchered the installation or it is a manufacturing defect.

If you driving around with an unsecured battery - this is not a good practice, it could have disastrous results in the right situation. Think of a vehicle rollover gas coming out and a sparking battery thrown from its mounting space. When installing a 12v battery that resides in the vehicle interior it is important to properly secure that battery and to vent the Sulphur Dioxide gas that batteries produce in certain situations.

I do realize someone new to automobiles and maintenance would have questions and limited knowledge on what is acceptable or not.

How AC Delco handles the venting for its batteries/ NIRO uses a different type vent plug but same concept.

Battery Vent Plug Installation – TechLink

gm-techlink.com

 

Thanks for this info Johnxyz.
I recently saw this 12v battery replacement 2019 PHEV indicating that a reasonably priced replacement battery is now available at Auto Zone (probably other places as well).
It would be interesting to see what they provide for venting - if anything.

 

Thanks for the pics, which shows the connected vent and blocked vent. A new battery with 2 vents would provide a plug for the vent not required.
When I see the 410 CCA, there is no reason why that battery should not be sufficient for the Niro because it does not have to provide current to crank the ICE.
The problem is with the charging algorithm and Kia/Hyundai either has to fix that or switch to the lithium 12V that is currently found in the HEV.

 

EarthX makes Lithium replacements for small lead acid batteries. I've let one sit 4 months without losing any charge I could measure

 

I think the Niro battery would not qualify as "small lead acid"???
I agree with sitting many months without losing charge but again, in the Niro there will be some loss due to electronics.

 

In our case the NIRO PHEV has had two instances of the 12v battery not starting the car; 1st. I don't think I got the luggage lid completely closed, it drained the battery, 2nd. we did not drive the NIRO for 3 weeks during covid. At both times we hung the keys at the garage door in close proximity to the vehicle. We now keep the fobs in the kitchen in a tin box.

We have had the NIRO PHEV for 3 years and now closing in on 40,000 miles.

The NIRO PHEV will cycle the Auxiliary Battery Saver 10 times at each incident to attempt to charge the 12v battery back up. After that it locks this system out to prevent the Hybrid battery from becoming too discharged.

I think both incidences we had could have been prevented by myself. As a countermeasure we carry a Battery Booster in the vehicle and charge/condition the NIRO PHEV battery every 6 months overnight with a BatteryMinder with the battery still hooked up in the car. With these two countermeasures the 12v battery is performing excellently and is really not a concern.

I wonder how many individuals who report repetitive problems with the NIRO EV and NIRO PHEV unknowingly have installed auxiliary components in the vehicle that cause problems ex. dash cams that are always on or come on when motion is detected, OB scanners that are constantly reporting out to smart phones, devices that are plugged in and remain on when the vehicle is off etc.

An important point is that the Auxiliary Battery Saver System is a selectable item on the user drop down menu on the car. The box must be checked for the Auxiliary Battery Saver System to function, if the box is not checked then the the Auxiliary Battery Saver Function is disabled. Information is on page H35 of the 2019 NIRO PHEV Owners manual

 

With the technology that is available, I think it would be extremely easy for Kia/Hyundai to program and provide for a "smart trickle charge" on the 12V battery every time the charging cable is connected...problem solved!!!

 

I've measured 12V SOC increases when the car is actively charging its HV battery, and when on/being driven around. Just those two, and more quickly when the car's on. Once HV charging stops, the 12V begins to slowly discharge, even when still plugged in. I haven't yet tried to find out how "smart" any of this is.

 

I've been spending some time on the Ford Escape site and noticed that Ford HEVs have a very similar problem with their OEM 12v batteries dying in 2-3 years. I wonder if it just cheap OEM batteries or an unintended "design feature" of HEVs & PHEVs???

 

The HEV does not have the 12V problem because it has a 12V lithium battery and that battery is fine with a lower SOC for extended time periods and it also has the 12V reset switch - BONUS!