[jimtpowers]

Hello,

I know I’m probably crazy just asking this question. I have ‘22 Niro HEV and love it! It is the Touring model so has so many toys and tools that make driving so easy. I have figured out how to use the regeneration to the max so I’m averaging 52 MPG according to the car computer, about 49 when I do the simple math of dividing miles by gallons for my actual MPG. Still impressive! I do reset the tank statistics every time I fill up so I get an accurate comparison.

My question surrounds how often it kicks in the gas motor. I have noticed my battery level can be well above half and the gas motor will still kick in when it doesn’t need to. I know when I need power it should kick in but there are times I don’t need power and should be able to run on just the batteries.

Thus my question. Is there a way to change the thresholds of when the gas motor kicks on and off so I can save even more fuel? I’m assuming the answer is no but can’t hurt to ask.

Second question not related, why does the car’s computer ALWAYS indicated better MPG than calculated? This isn’t just a Kia thing, my two Fords before this car did the same thing.

 

[FlNiro]

I think the second question is the marketing dept. has a lot to do with that. First question is I think it would be a mistake to monkey with the computer, instead learn how to get around it's limits a little. Like when you think it should be running on the battery alone I agree it seems hyper sensitive to the pressure on the accelerator. Instead just accelerate a few mph. above the speed you want and then let off just enough to let the battery alone cut in you'll loose those few extra mph but then just keep enough pressure on the accelerator to keep you speed and it should stay in the ev mode for quite awhile. Things like that.

 

[jimtpowers]

I have done that but more times than not, it keeps the engine running far longer than it should. It probably is a mistake to mess with the computer but I had to ask. I'm a software developer so that's where my brain goes.

 

[FlNiro]

Is the battery already low when you try that? If the road is flat I can usually keep the car in EV for a few miles before the battery gets low and makes the ICE cut in.

 

[jimtpowers]

The battery is over half full. I'm not concerned about the engine running when it is low but at half full, it shouldn't need to kick in the engine unless I'm climbing a hill.

 

[atc98092]

Hybrid models aren't designed for or expected to run extensively on EV power. For that you need the PHEV. The computer is programmed to maintain the battery charge level within certain parameters, only going really low or high under unusual conditions, usually related to climbing or descending long hills. The EV motor has less power than the PHEV or the EV. In my son-in-law's Ioniq HEV (identical powertrain to the Niro HEV) I cannot keep the engine off unless the ground is level or downhill and I accelerate very, very gently.

 

[Techy]

You can't change the programming of the computer and I suggest that Kia has done a better job of programming than we can.

 

[ska bob]

I've programmed ECUs on subarus but never seen the software or interface for a Niro. The ecu's may be locked with a code or special programmer key only available to dealers. Also the hybrid system is likely so complicated and because it's not a performance vehicle aftermarket just won't bother investing in tuning software/hardware. The HEV isn't really made to drive in EV only mode anyway, I think the motor is 40HP or less and only a 200V system. And there is no way to charge the battery back up besides regen braking or running the gas motor if it was ran empty driving in EV. The PHEV is made to drive in EV mode, it uses I think a 330V battery and 60HP EV motor and it can be plugged in to recharge the battery after driving in EV.

 

[gwendolynware1951]

Hello,

I know I’m probably crazy just asking this question. I have ‘22 Niro HEV and love it! It is the Touring model so has so many toys and tools that make driving so easy. I have figured out how to use the regeneration to the max so I’m averaging 52 MPG according to the car computer, about 49 when I do the simple math of dividing miles by gallons for my actual MPG. Still impressive! I do reset the tank statistics every time I fill up so I get an accurate comparison.

My question surrounds how often it kicks in the gas motor. I have noticed my battery level can be well above half and the gas motor will still kick in when it doesn’t need to. I know when I need power it should kick in but there are times I don’t need power and should be able to run on just the batteries.

Thus my question. Is there a way to change the thresholds of when the gas motor kicks on and off so I can save even more fuel? I’m assuming the answer is no but can’t hurt to ask.

Second question not related, why does the car’s computer ALWAYS indicated better MPG than calculated? This isn’t just a Kia thing, my two Fords before this car did the same thing.

I have a 2022 Kia Niro Touring too and I love it! Re question 1: you must be a true car person. I've noted that my hybrid will also occasionally kick in the gas when the battery level is high, but frankly- there so much I don't understand and am learning about hybrids that as long as my car is doing well and problem free - I've decided to focus on more pressing issues. Re: question 2, I track my own mileage, gallons at fillup, and every other little item I could think of including outside temperature in a little I keep in the side pocket to get a true picture of my MPG over time. I think my spreadsheet is well-worth the time.

 

[atc98092]

I track my own mileage, gallons at fillup, and every other little item I could think of including outside temperature in a little I keep in the side pocket to get a true picture of my MPG over time. I think my spreadsheet is well-worth the time.

Fuelly.com offers a great phone app for tracking MPG. You can enter a lot of details, such as fuel brand, octane, take a picture of the receipt and save it, tire pressure, and then a generic Notes area to write whatever you want. And the web site has an CSV export option to play with charts to your heart's content.

 

[h2onorth]

Hi Guys, am based in UK. I have hybrid Niro. Many times have noticed that the engine starts in situations when the motivation battery is well above 50%, ie 1st thing in morning just moving car out of garage to wash it, even after long drive if car is left to stand most of day the engine will start almost immediately or very soon after we move off ( speed makes no difference as engine, though running is only charging the auxiliaries , not driving the car.) No the program is set as it is and we just have to accept it. Even if I make sure any aircon/ auxiliaries are of but it makes no difference. This is the downside of any hybrid system it errs on the overly cautious side and will never be controlled by driver. Similarly too of course is the compartment heater which relies on engine block temptation to heat the cabin. Even PHEV 's now very few have the same system as an EV has too heat the cabin which is why I will not buy a PHEV!

 

[yticolev]

The engine starts in the hybrid under many circumstance with the battery half full or even higher. On a cold morning, always, but even when hot on first trip of the day it will turn on within a couple blocks to circulate and warm fluids in the expectation you will be driving more than a couple blocks (preparing the engine to be more efficient when actually needed).

The engine will start with a light push on the throttle when starting at a stop, even starting on a stop with an egg shell type push on the throttle if the car is on the slightest of grades, or if even just before a painted line requiring an extra bit of torque for an initial wheel turn. The torque sensor is very sensitive. And no matter the lightest of touches on the throttle at a stop, a very slight grade will also turn on the engine instantly unless the battery level is high.

In other conditions at speed, look at the power gauge for a rationale why the engine is turning on. Very slight grades can be deceptive and even look like a down grade. Water on the road or inclement weather require more torque. Cold conditions make EV less efficient leading to again more engine on time. And of course, HVAC calls require more power reducing EV only modes.

Also, the car is unable to figure out what the next move humans will make (and will never learn), and putting it into CC gives it more information, making turning on the engine in many situations less likely. For the same reason, if you are trying to trick the car into EV mode (which I often do at end of trips), CC on makes it more likely. Also nudging down the speed in the city on CC makes EV more likely than doing the same thing under manual control.

But mostly, EV or hybrid mode is a zero sum game. Smart and attentive drivers can help the algorithms beat the average driver, but if you have a light foot, and do not speed up needlessly with a stop ahead, and slow well before a stop or turn, you can always beat the government estimates. For example, I do not exceed 65 mph on the highway, and drive just fast enough to not annoy traffic if I'm in traffic (otherwise like an old lady), and I have a four season average over 53 mpg (US), and many 59/60 mpg tanks in the summertime. It would be higher except I prioritize my motorcycle in the summer as it gets 80 mpg ridden briskly so don't drive my car much during the most efficient weather.

On average, my displayed average mpg is 3 mpg optimistic versus actual mpg (trip display is somewhat more accurate best I can tell). Just under 60,000 miles and only one tank was ever within 1 mpg of displayed average mpg. Last fill was a record 8 mpg optimistic! It is more likely to be over 3 mpg optimistic I've discovered on 700 mile plus tanks, which makes sense when you think about it.

 

[atc98092]

Even PHEV 's now very few have the same system as an EV has too heat the cabin which is why I will not buy a PHEV!

The 2023 Niro PHEV is supposed to have an electric heater, same as an EV. Naturally, that's going to be a hit on your EV driving range, but since it will also have a larger battery it should still have reasonable range.

 

[ska bob]

The engine will start with a light push on the throttle when starting at a stop, even starting on a stop with an egg shell type push on the throttle if the car is on the slightest of grades, or if even just before a painted line requiring an extra bit of torque for an initial wheel turn. The torque sensor is very sensitive. And no matter the lightest of touches on the throttle at a stop, a very slight grade will also turn on the engine instantly unless the battery level is high.

Sounds like your driving in Auto and not in EV because ours does not do that. I have no problem driving it with the gas motor never coming on, during the summer anyway. Usually we can get 30-32 miles in EV and once we got 34 miles before the gas motor finally came on. Just keep the gauge out of the Power range and even getting on the freeway and going 65 or 70 on the freeway the gas motor won't come until the battery gets under 20% or I switch it to HEV.

 

[atc98092]

Sounds like your driving in Auto and not in EV because ours does not do that.

To my knowledge the HEV doesn't have an EV mode. This thread is discussing the HEV. Only the PHEV has an EV mode. He's correct that the HEV will start the ICE with any demand for power that exceeds pulling slowly out of a parking spot. My son-in-law has the Ioniq HEV, which has the identical powertrain to the Niro HEV, and it is impossible to drive as an EV. Yes, I've been able to maintain freeway speeds in his with the engine off, but only because I was on a slight downhill slope and it was only good for less than a mile.

 

[sixholdens]

Hello,

I know I’m probably crazy just asking this question. I have ‘22 Niro HEV and love it! It is the Touring model so has so many toys and tools that make driving so easy. I have figured out how to use the regeneration to the max so I’m averaging 52 MPG according to the car computer, about 49 when I do the simple math of dividing miles by gallons for my actual MPG. Still impressive! I do reset the tank statistics every time I fill up so I get an accurate comparison.

My question surrounds how often it kicks in the gas motor. I have noticed my battery level can be well above half and the gas motor will still kick in when it doesn’t need to. I know when I need power it should kick in but there are times I don’t need power and should be able to run on just the batteries.

Thus my question. Is there a way to change the thresholds of when the gas motor kicks on and off so I can save even more fuel? I’m assuming the answer is no but can’t hurt to ask.

Second question not related, why does the car’s computer ALWAYS indicated better MPG than calculated? This isn’t just a Kia thing, my two Fords before this car did the same thing.

I am curious. Do you have an HEV or a PHEV? From the way you worded your posts, you have a HEV but from the specs you quote and the operating conditions you have a PHEV. I'm leaving a longer post below this that will sortof explain my questions.

 

[SDeemer]

Once the engine is warmed up, when I think it should be running on battery, but isn't, I can fool it into EV mode by putting the transmission in neutral for a second or two, then putting it back in drive.

Also, there is an early/normal/late coasting setting. Search for COASTING to see all options.

 

[Alpacaman]

I have done that but more times than not, it keeps the engine running far longer than it should. It probably is a mistake to mess with the computer but I had to ask. I'm a software developer so that's where my brain goes.

Agreed, the ICE of my 2020 HEV seems to run longer than necessary. It irritates me when it starts and I'm just a few hundred metres from my destination - on the flat - and I know it could have made it in EV mode. As an ex-software developer myself, it seems that it would be a minor change to just run the main battery a bit lower. Then if I need power after restarting, the ICE will deliver; why do I need to maintain 50% battery level overnight?

 

[dblackfl]

Agreed, the ICE of my 2020 HEV seems to run longer than necessary. It irritates me when it starts and I'm just a few hundred metres from my destination - on the flat - and I know it could have made it in EV mode. As an ex-software developer myself, it seems that it would be a minor change to just run the main battery a bit lower. Then if I need power after restarting, the ICE will deliver; why do I need to maintain 50% battery level overnight?

I don't know Kia's thinking yet will offer an anecdote from past experience with a HEV, a Civic Hybrid. I owned one and suffered two battery failures, not because of the below but just poor cell balancing/overall design.

Honda's 2nd gen Civic hybrid initially allowed a charge range of IIRC 10-90%. People liked that and it made the most of the smallish battery, providing good mpg, usually beating the EPA estimate.
Then Honda started seeing too many early failures of these batteries, often replaced under warranty. They pushed a software update that reduced the range from again, IIRC 30-80% or maybe less. It was mainly about the minimum charge level it'd allow before starting the ICE. I think it did often go to 100% in a charge situation. Anyway, problem solved, or made better - except now there were a lot of peeved people for the resulting lower mpg and a lawsuit I'm pretty sure. It's easy enough to search and find more about it on the net.

Consider Kia's 10 yr/100K mile hybrid system warranty. Batteries do still fail and Kia has to control their replacement rate, or it's bad news in more than one dimension. The most effective way to do this, besides a solid battery design including good cooling, is to restrict that charge/discharge cycle range and keep the average SOC in the middle. I won't here go into chemically why this is, but am just positing a likely reason they did it this way, and why they're not going to change it.

For what it's worth, after what I went through with my Civic hybrid, I'll take a little less (P)HEV range any day for the relative peace of mind the battery is being "taken care of." Everything I see so far tells me Kia's engineers know what they're doing with the BMS.

 

[FlNiro]

I seemed to remember this and us Prius owners puffing their chests out a little bit that the Prius didn't have that problem lol