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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys. It's almost that time.


I'd planned to sell my PHEV around now, so am putting out some feelers.


In BC Canada it cost me: ($39650 msrp + 12% tax) - $2500 rebate, if I recall correctly (~$42k CDN).



I've added an almost $1000 professional installation of front/rear dashcams (BlackVue 60FPS), and have a nice set of official rubber floor mats.


Picked it up in mid Oct, 2018. 8k km. Black interior/exterior. No dings. Perfect shape. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade the 12V battery, as I'd recommend to anyone buying.



I was told there's only 4 in this province, and a total of 47 in the country, so I guess its rarity counts for something.


Not wanting to part with it immediately, but am wanting to know what I'll get.


Thanks!!
 

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Generally, start by deducting your rebates from selling price. That is why you see EV type cars selling for less than ordinary cars relative to starting price. Real bargains to be had for used i3s and Leafs. PHEVs have a much smaller market, so I think selling one privately will be difficult.
 

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Hey guys. It's almost that time.
I'd planned to sell my PHEV around now, so am putting out some feelers.
In BC Canada it cost me: ($39650 msrp + 12% tax) - $2500 rebate, if I recall correctly (~$42k CDN).


I've added an almost $1000 professional installation of front/rear dashcams (BlackVue 60FPS), and have a nice set of official rubber floor mats.
Picked it up in mid Oct, 2018. 8k km. Black interior/exterior. No dings. Perfect shape. If I decide to keep it I'll upgrade the 12V battery, as I'd recommend to anyone buying.
I was told there's only 4 in this province, and a total of 47 in the country, so I guess its rarity counts for something.
Not wanting to part with it immediately, but am wanting to know what I'll get.
Thanks!!

Ohh... You're soon getting the Niro EV my friend!? ;)
I remember you got the first PHEV in Canada! As we speak, some people are still waiting too get their PHEV ordered in Octtober last year.!


keep me posted!
 

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Generally, start by deducting your rebates from selling price.
If it's generally like that in the states, it's not over here.. our rebate includes a tax part.. so is 2500$ tax included in BC and 4000$ tx included in QC.
 

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Unless you can rebates on used cars, the original rebate effectively creates a new lower msrp for the original seller. Let's say the original seller tries to sell his car a week later for $1,000 less than the original msrp, he is actually selling it for more than you can get a brand new car plus rebate. That's a fail!
 

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Unless you can rebates on used cars, the original rebate effectively creates a new lower msrp for the original seller. Let's say the original seller tries to sell his car a week later for $1,000 less than the original msrp, he is actually selling it for more than you can get a brand new car plus rebate. That's a fail!
Over here in QC, a used car cannot get a "used car" rebate of 4000$ if it already got the initial 8000$ rebate when new.! All BEV.s used cars sold here comes from the US, Ontario, etc..
 

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The question that everyone is skirting around is how much is the vehicle worth. It is used, so it's not new, so I don't think that the warranty that you have will directly translate over to a new owner? I don't know as I don't sell cars. But that would be a question that will be asked. Now there is the depreciation hit. Its that silly thing being that new cars loose value as soon as they are driving off the lot and registered into a persons name. Unlike some rare classic cars that will all be used to start with that can retain and sometimes gain value over time. Your PHEV is not worth the price you've paid.



The $1000 worth of dashcams no matter how professionally installed are not worth anywhere close to that amount. I think you'd be lucky to get an extra $200 onto the cost of the car if you sweet talk someone into it. Yes, there are people who see a value in having a dashcam, but I have seen them balk at paying $150 for a unit, so I doubt that you'd get very much. The car mats you might get 1/2 what you paid if you pulled them out and sold privately. If they are in the car then you're effectively giving them away for free as I doubt someone would pay you extra for them.


Your best hope is that you find someone who most desperately wants to get into a plug in Niro and NEEDS IT NOW! type of mindset. The best person to ask is lafe as he had an HEV for 6 months and I gather dumped it for the plug in. How much did he lose in the transaction??
 

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Your best hope is that you find someone who most desperately wants to get into a plug in Niro and NEEDS IT NOW! type of mindset.
There you go.. And i am shure that a delaer can help with that!



The best person to ask is lafe as he had an HEV for 6 months and I gather dumped it for the plug in. How much did he lose in the transaction??
Less than 1000$... I had an offer from the dealer that i could not refuse.!! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Orac: can't help but wonder why you are selling?

Hey Dovidan. My original plan was to use the PHEV until the EV became available, and was told March this year would be the date. Unfortunately Kia doesn't care much about getting the EV in Canada it would seem, so I've decided to go halfway with my original plan and get the Model 3 instead of the Niro EV - eventually the Model Y (deposit down already).


It's disheartening that my market is so small that it's not important to Kia, and that I've wasted so much money trusting they'd actually give us some of the global allotment.



I do love the PHEV Niro though, and ****, the Kia dealership people are amazing - just amazing. It's the nicest car I've ever owned, and best driving in most aspects (apart from a chipped Golf TDI that was.... fun). I just need to have pure electric. I'm triggered/OCD whenever I pass a gas station, let alone have to stop at one :)


So to the car, and to answer your question, I say, 'It's not you, it's me...' hehehe
 

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Hey brother lafe005! :)


Looks like I might be also the first person to sell a PHEV Niro in Canada. haha.


I love it. It's almost the perfect car, apart from that darn gas engine (which is a plus in colder parts of the country). I wanted the EV so badly (got to sit in one a couple of days ago at the autoshow), but am now told it's delayed until at least August. Don't think I can hold on that long, so will sell it (apparently there's a horde ready to buy according to dealer). I can't charge at home which is a real downer, and the EV would have solved that for me. Many L3 chargers near my place that are completely free.


So, I'll most likely, after chatting with the dealer tomorrow, sell it to some lucky person and grab the Model 3 for now. It's a bitch to get in and out of, but it's safe, fast, and... an EV.


I wish the feds would stop mucking around with the $5000 rebate they've mentioned. I wonder if it will be grandfathered in for vehicles sold this year, and if they'll raise the limit to something reasonable. $45000 is asinine considering more than 75% of EVs in this country are more expensive than that. There should be no limit. Let the people with money drive the market and lower costs for everyone else!


They freak out about the paltry $300 million fund for EVs, while at the same time *giving* at least $3.3 billion to the fossil fuel industry, and even buying a pipeline for $4.5 billion without public input. So massively corrupt!!!
 

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I am dead against the Federal Government giving ANY incentives towards people buying a vehicle. WHY SHOULD I or anyone else have to pay a portion of our tax dollars towards someone else getting an electric vehicle. Surely the decision should be wether or not you feel that the savings of buying an EV give you a big enough return to offset the extra cost you are willing to pay to get one. You currently have got a short range EV in your plug in, and if that doesn't meet your needs then by all means spend your money not mine. The Feds have already loaded up 100 billion new debt that is getting passed on to my children and eventual grandchildren of which a chunk of that was a Photoshoot Junket for Trudeau to go to India, and his wonderful Island trip to meet with the Muslim spiritual leader. (all on my dime). I bet you already got a tax break on your PHEV so why should you get another one just because you decided you didn't want to wait for an EV to ship and bought the wrong car. Should I get a $300 tax break because my iMac isn't as energy efficient at the latest one announced, and when I bought my iMac I really would have liked the new one, it just wasn't announced (or made) yet.


/flame off
 

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I think your anger is misplaced. For one, such subsidies are temporary and just like many other positive programs in the past, are there to promote positive change. Compare with subsidies to the oil industry and big farmers to name just two of dozens of industries where subsidies cost far more and do actual harm to taxpayers and the environment and the economy.
 

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If it is there to promote a better behaviour or positive change, then why not give a subsidy to the HEV as well. They get far better fuel efficiency than say an F150 or Ram pickup truck. I fail to see any reason other than a farmer needing a pickup but they seem to sell like hotcakes, and mostly to idiots who then like to 'roll coal' and other rather detrimental practices. Perhaps it would be smarter than trying the carrot to tempt the rich to buy the expensive EV cars, to use the stick and purchase all the pollution belching pickups to pay for the carrot.


The anger is not misplaced as any time you let politicians get involved, the outcome becomes political. So you get two or three areas that seem to get all the federal money spent on them with the rest of the country picking up the tab. It is like the transition to LED light fixtures. The manufacturers say the cost of setting up making LED light fixures is high and as we have not sold any the cost of the bulbs will be high. So comes along the government, who say we will pay for a coupon that will drop the cost of the bulb to a more reasonable price. The manufacturer charges $10 for a bulb. The government gives everyone an $8 off coupon and the consumer sees the bulb for $2.. Great. They buy a whole bunch of them. The company sells a whole load that brings down the cost of making the bulb to the $2 mark, yet as they charged the $10, the company made an exaggerated $8 extra profit per bulb that they pocketed. The consumer actually ends up paying the $10 anyways per bulb as they pay for the $8 coupon in their taxes. well, really its the people who didn't buy a whole wack of LED bulbs who actually pay for something they don't get to use. The government doesn't care as they are spending someone else's money. They could have for the same cost turned to the manufacturer and said how many bulbs would need to be ordered to get the $2 bulb? Then sell them costing the taxpayer actually less money as they would sell the same bulbs only this time the government took the $8 profit for each of the bulbs sold and passed that savings back to the taxpayer. This is a way to use incentives to promote change.
 

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If it is there to promote a better behaviour or positive change, then why not give a subsidy to the HEV as well.
Man, I hear you on that one! When i got my HEV in May last year, my provincial gouv. had made a change that HEV cars sold in 2018 and up could not have the 500$ rebate then if i had bought a 2017 and beyound.! kind of pissed me off, but like say's the "doctor", these "envelope" of cash goes down very quickly each year and get renewed all the time till the program is closed.!


Now, imagine, if the Niro BEV is sold below the 45.000$ canadian (wich i doubt), Quebec buyers could get a 13.000$ off the price at the delivery of the car.!



Your other problem, is that your provincial gouv. has decided to slash down all rebates for electric, PHEV and HEV cars.. why do you think that as we speak, there is only 30 Niro BEV'S ordered with deposit and signed contract in Ontario and their are more than 200 in Qc only. :eek:



The anger is not misplaced as any time you let politicians get involved, the outcome becomes political. So you get two or three areas that seem to get all the federal money spent on them with the rest of the country picking up the tab.
I will not comment that part! I will wait for the people to decide about this in next October.!;)
 

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I am dead against the Federal Government giving ANY incentives towards people buying a vehicle. WHY SHOULD I or anyone else have to pay a portion of our tax dollars towards someone else getting an electric vehicle. Surely the decision should be wether or not you feel that the savings of buying an EV give you a big enough return to offset the extra cost you are willing to pay to get one. You currently have got a short range EV in your plug in, and if that doesn't meet your needs then by all means spend your money not mine. The Feds have already loaded up 100 billion new debt that is getting passed on to my children and eventual grandchildren of which a chunk of that was a Photoshoot Junket for Trudeau to go to India, and his wonderful Island trip to meet with the Muslim spiritual leader. (all on my dime). I bet you already got a tax break on your PHEV so why should you get another one just because you decided you didn't want to wait for an EV to ship and bought the wrong car. Should I get a $300 tax break because my iMac isn't as energy efficient at the latest one announced, and when I bought my iMac I really would have liked the new one, it just wasn't announced (or made) yet.


/flame off
Oh man, the hilarious thing is I completely agree. There should be no subsidies on anything and the free market should be actually free.
But that's not how it is.
As Canadians we give tax breaks and subsidies directly to the oil cartels to the tune of over three billion a year. We subsidize the medical system for crazy amounts of money to treat people for diseases directly related to breathing particulate emissions (the ones that live!). We must decommission orphaned oil pumps, clean up spills, and deal with the impact of global warming. All of this on my dime.
Every carbon-belching SUV that drives by me is paid for, not in small part, by my contribution to the forced extraction of wealth that is being transferred to a minority of people.
See, I know how it is to be forced to pay for someone else, and feel your pain.
I would far prefer to direct some of that ransom money towards technology that actually has a small chance of correcting some of those issues I've mentioned. It's a tiny, tiny amount of money that can be leveraged to extract huge behavioural changes.
I live in a highly energy efficient dwelling, have spent way beyond others to make sure my energy usage in minimised, 20 years ahead of the green movement.
I've felt nothing but frustration at government spending on crazy programs that do nothing.
Subsidizing EVs is not one of those.
Remove subsidies from all fossil endeavours and I'll be on your side.
 

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Oh man, the hilarious thing is I completely agree. There should be no subsidies on anything and the free market should be actually free.
But that's not how it is.
As Canadians we give tax breaks and subsidies directly to the oil cartels to the tune of over three billion a year. We subsidize the medical system for crazy amounts of money to treat people for diseases directly related to breathing particulate emissions (the ones that live!). We must decommission orphaned oil pumps, clean up spills, and deal with the impact of global warming. All of this on my dime.
Every carbon-belching SUV that drives by me is paid for, not in small part, by my contribution to the forced extraction of wealth that is being transferred to a minority of people.
See, I know how it is to be forced to pay for someone else, and feel your pain.
I would far prefer to direct some of that ransom money towards technology that actually has a small chance of correcting some of those issues I've mentioned. It's a tiny, tiny amount of money that can be leveraged to extract huge behavioural changes.
I live in a highly energy efficient dwelling, have spent way beyond others to make sure my energy usage in minimised, 20 years ahead of the green movement.
I've felt nothing but frustration at government spending on crazy programs that do nothing.
Subsidizing EVs is not one of those.
Remove subsidies from all fossil endeavours and I'll be on your side.

Nice post. You said a lot that was on my mind, more eloquently than I could have stated it. On the other hand, you were responding to Roadkill401's post, and while I don't always agree with him, I like reading his posts and I like hearing his point of view. Sometimes I agree, and other times I like it because even though I disagree, it reminds me that there are a lot of good people in the world who don't always think the same way that I do, and I think it's important to recognize other points of view and try to understand where people are coming from. (I like it even better when they can persuade me or I can persuade them to adopt a new point of view, but sadly, the human condition doesn't seem to allow that to happen as often as I wish).


In the current context, I will suggest to our friend RoadKill401 that as much as you find fault with your government's way of doing things, there's a lot that I admire about the Canadian government's way and I think the USA government could be improved by paying closer attention to what our friends to the north are thinking and doing. At the same time, I think we (meaning all Kia Niro owners) are all benefiting to at least some extent from previous government subsidies paid to multiple auto manufacturers by multiple governments in various forms, including both direct subsidies and also tax credits. Let's face it: Kia didn't figure out how to create the Niro in a vacuum: they surely paid a lot of attention to what Toyota had created and steadily improved with the Prius. And while I'm only vaguely informed on this question, I have in mind that both the US Government and perhaps also the Canadian government extended tax credits (in previous years) to Prius owners. Some of that money went to corporate profits no doubt, but some surely was reinvested in R&D, that eventually led to the Niro at a price point we could sort of afford.



If you're driving a Niro today, it's likely that your cost to own that vehicle has been reduced by a multitude of social planners in multiple governments who advocated for the idea that the world needs to consume less energy and pollute less, per mile traveled. I don't always like the idea of social planners (especially those who lack experience) making important decisions that affect my life, but in the current context, my impression is that the collective decision to have the government step in and get more hybrids and PHEVs and EVs in circulation was probably a good decision.
 

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Every carbon-belching SUV that drives by me is paid for, not in small part, by my contribution to the forced extraction of wealth that is being transferred to a minority of people.
See, I know how it is to be forced to pay for someone else, and feel your pain.
I would far prefer to direct some of that ransom money towards technology that actually has a small chance of correcting some of those issues I've mentioned. It's a tiny, tiny amount of money that can be leveraged to extract huge behavioural changes.
I live in a highly energy efficient dwelling, have spent way beyond others to make sure my energy usage in minimised, 20 years ahead of the green movement.
I've felt nothing but frustration at government spending on crazy programs that do nothing.

I will admit for a bit I was one of those SUV driving people. It was a choice out of necessity as being a very tall person, they for some reason made cars designed for the sub 6' and being well over that mark made it quite fun to drive with a standard car. I am very pleased that the NIRO is clearly designed with tall people in mind as I have ZERO issue fitting inside.


I am very much like you in believing that subsidizing a company for the pure sake of profit is not on my list. I too am appalled that big oil has reaped the land and walked away leaving many of the ranch owners with dormant wells that are leaching out contamination yet the shell company who owns them has had their wealth transferred out and now sit effectively bankrupt and say there is no way to cover the cost of capping and cleanup. I am all for holding the real owners accountable and making them pay for the real cost of extraction from start to finish so the land is as effectively back to the same state of use it was in before the process.


I am also like you in I have worked on my own home in making it energy efficient and did it on my own dime. I did it because I found that it would serve me better and save me money to do it right from the start. I fully get that not everyone can afford to do it right and I believe in giving a helping hand for the less fortunate to help bring them up, but that is where I start to draw my line. There is a distinct difference between the haves and the really have-nots. If you look at the seriously poor, they likely don't even own a car, and if they do, it is likely one that is very inexpensive in the purchase value, but likely requires a constant amount of money to barely keep it going. These as the cars that I'd like to see get off the streets. These are the cars that are not safe and where I'd prefer to see the grant money going towards. These are the people who really need it. Not buying some $1 million BMW EV and getting a tax refund like has happened here in Ontario. I am going to gather you would be behind me on that one.



Nice post. You said a lot that was on my mind, more eloquently than I could have stated it. On the other hand, you were responding to Roadkill401's post, and while I don't always agree with him, I like reading his posts and I like hearing his point of view. Sometimes I agree, and other times I like it because even though I disagree, it reminds me that there are a lot of good people in the world who don't always think the same way that I do, and I think it's important to recognize other points of view and try to understand where people are coming from. (I like it even better when they can persuade me or I can persuade them to adopt a new point of view, but sadly, the human condition doesn't seem to allow that to happen as often as I wish).


If you're driving a Niro today, it's likely that your cost to own that vehicle has been reduced by a multitude of social planners in multiple governments who advocated for the idea that the world needs to consume less energy and pollute less, per mile travelled. I don't always like the idea of social planners (especially those who lack experience) making important decisions that affect my life, but in the current context, my impression is that the collective decision to have the government step in and get more hybrids and PHEVs and EVs in circulation was probably a good decision.

Thankyou, I will take it as a compliment. I was on vacation a week or so ago and met quite the array of people from all over the world. The one thing that sitting in a pool with a drink in hand does it breaks through the ice of preconceived notions of others and let you see really how much in common we all have rather than focusing on our differences. Sometimes we are all heading towards the same goal, just taking a different path to get there.


I will agree that innovation is the path that can and will lead to the betterment of society and the world we live in. I have followed the path of EV from the ill fated GM EV1, and how depending on who you believe and how you look at it, has shaped the direction of vehicles that we drive in today. The path to getting a better and safer car has been a really rocky road and I know full well that we are not there yet. I get that you cannot totally trust the free market to deliver what is needed and quite often needs to get the shove in the right direction to get the ball rolling. I look at food and think back just 3-4 years ago it was just about impossible to get a can of soup that wasn't loaded beyond reason with salt and sugar for no real reason. The consumer really didn't have a choice to purchase an alternative as there just wasn't anything else out there, or if there was, none of the shops offered to sell it. To say that consumers could vote with there pocketbook was like saying they could choose between eating and not eating, not really an option. Now in my local stores, about 1/3rd of the shelf space for soup is low sodium or no sodium options, and generally speaking, they are usually very low in stock as people are buying that option. I hope that in the next few years that companies will have heard the message of what consumers want.


The unfortunate part of this is I don't know how well this approach will work with large purchase items that don't get bought very much. It is not like you buy a new car every year. (well there are some on this forum who seem to). There are those who purchase based on needs be it transportation, cost, and sadly for some it is style and image. There are some who purchase with a social conscience and those who simply will not and those who cannot. I get that there is the side of if it isn't made or made available to the masses then you remove their option to choose. Perhaps the discussion should be around what is the best means of promoting the change that is needed as to move us all forward to a better tomorrow.
 
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