The PHEV computer isn't supposed to let the battery drop below about 16% (although I've seen mine go as low as around 10% at freeway speeds). At 16% the car is supposed to switch to hybrid mode and maintain the battery in that general range. As I said, it can go a bit lower at freeway speeds, and climbing a long hill could also drop the battery fairly low. If the battery reaches 0% I have a hunch the car won't even work, as hybrid mode requires a minimum amount of battery charge. It sounds like something might be amiss with your battery controller, which I think should be covered under the general hybrid warranty of 8 years/100,000 miles.

 

Thanks, I appreciate the response. It definitely did let it go below 16% - and was in fact below that for 300 miles or so. It was probably in hybrid mode for a long time but I wasn't watching it - just assuming that and driving home! I don't recall exactly where it occurred, but I think it was in a section of about 45 miles with an overall 2000 ft elevation increase, which might be considered a "long hill." Any ideas on how to know if it is in fact the battery controller? Will that show up in a diagnostic? (I'm the second owner, so I only get a 5 year 60,000 mile battery warranty, but it wasn't placed into service until May 2021, so I have at least a little time.)

 

Any ideas on how to know if it is in fact the battery controller? Will that show up in a diagnostic?

Probably just observe it for the next few weeks and see if the battery level remains as expected if you drive normally. If you reach zero miles of range, you should be around 15-16%, and continued driving in city conditions it should stay around there. If it does, then there's likely nothing wrong and you just encountered a small area the car can't keep the battery charged while still driving. If it continues to drop after entering hybrid mode, and you get into the low single digits again, I think it's time to have a dealer look it over. No clue if that would trigger any codes that could be pulled.

 

Yup, that's what I'm doing Was just out running around town and it's between 12% and 15%. I was going to ask if that seemed normal. It's a bit lower than you suggested, but hopefully still reasonable. I'm also planning to do a little hiking this weekend, not far out of town but with an uphill to get to the trailhead, so will see what happens with that. (It's much safer to test this 20 miles from home near an urban area rather than inadvertently test it 300 miles from home in a remote area.) I did have a dealer look at it and they said it's fine - but I am not one to always take that at face value.

 

If it stays above 10% in hybrid mode just running around town, I think it's fine. Sport Mode is supposed to charge the battery, but I found at 70+MPH the battery will still drain, as I saw mine drop to 10% (maybe even slightly lower, as I wasn't watching it closely). When the limit dropped to 60 MPH, it started charging the battery again. The ICE is really a touch too small for spirited driving and to still maintain some amount of charge. Your engine only has 104HP. The second gen Niro has bumped the electric motor (from 60 to 83HP) but the ICE is only 105HP. Since I've owned both first and second gen Niro PHEVs, I can absolutely say the 2nd gen has much more noticeable power. All my comments above are based on the 2nd gen. I can't remember much about my first Niro, other than I could barely climb the hill I live on without the ICE coming on. Never happens with the newer gen.

 

I appreciate all this. It seems like it's all going to be manageable, and that there isn't a problem and it just needs some finessing, which I can handle. If there is a problem I want to make sure that 1) it doesn't happen at the worst possible time, and 2) it gets fixed under warranty! If anyone else also has experience I'd love to hear it, and I'll also try to remember to follow up.

 

If there is a problem I want to make sure that 1) it doesn't happen at the worst possible time, and 2) it gets fixed under warranty!

Absolutely! If it is even questionable in your mind, have a dealer check it out.

 

I'm finding in another forum that there is some confusion about which numbers I mean (EV miles vs hybrid battery percentage), so I'm adding this in case it's useful for anyone else wanting to comment.

 

Correct, EV range isn't the same thing as battery percentage. The EV range will hit zero at around 16% charge level on the Niro PHEV. I observed this with both my 2019 and 2024 Niro. The battery requires a minimum state of charge to allow hybrid operation, which is why in general the computer keeps it above 10%. But remember that even 10% of a first gen Niro PHEV battery is just under 1kWh, and the regular hybrid Niro only has a battery size of 1.56kWh, so the PHEV down to 10% is still more than 50% of a HEV battery, so plenty to operate in hybrid mode.

As to the question posted in that photo: if the HV battery reaches zero, the car likely will not operate. But again, the battery control module does not allow it to drop that low, so unless something isn't working correctly (highly unlikely but certainly possible) it should never happen. When a PHEV hits zero miles, it just switches to HEV mode and continues going by using gas. Unless one is climbing an extremely long and steep hill the battery should rarely drop into single digit charge levels. Remember, the gas engine is very low power, so it still needs battery power for heavy work, and there's a limit to the power that's available. I do believe the car gives a warning about low battery and reduces the power available. So if that alert appears one should pull over and leave the engine running to build back up some charge.

 

That, atc98092, is exactly what I've been worried about. I had warning chimes, but didn't know what they might possibly have been about - and when I looked at the PHEV screen it said 2%. I'd been driving in the Rockies all day. 1) If I pull over, that will build charge back up? Being stranded is my biggest worry, so I'm looking for ways to absolutely prevent that. 2) Does it seem like there might actually be something wrong with the battery control module? If so, and if it's not throwing any codes that suggest that, is there any other way to determine that?

 

Driving in the Rockies implies some pretty good hills. If you pull over, the battery should gain some charge back, assuming the engine is running. You can force the engine to start by putting the car in neutral then pressing the gas pedal. I don't know how long it keeps running in that mode. If you're going to be on mountainous roads, I would switch the car into Sport Mode, which runs the engine more aggressively. On more level roads at moderate speeds, it can actually charge the battery to 99% (never will show 100% unless plugged in), but higher speeds and/or lots of hills will provide little charging. But Sport Mode would help in the mountains as well.

 

I have a '21 HEV and encountered a similar experience.

 

Thanks for pointing me to that. It's good to know that even though you lost a lot of power, you could still keep going. (That's really my biggest concern -- being stranded.) Do you happen to know what percentage the battery was at its lowest? And since it first happened, have you been in similar driving situations but avoided the problem by using sport mode or doing something else?

 

Happened three times; all at around 4000-5500 ft going uphill at 65+mph. Once I shifted to Sport and reduced my speed (very early during the third instance prior to anything scary) to 55, I saw the battery charge move back up.

Bottom line: Slow down.

 

That's how I got home. But doing 65 on a rural interstate for 3 hours was pretty grueling.

 

10% lowest charge IIRC.

 

Thanks. Getting down to 2% seems to be much more of a problem. Still not sure if it's a battery management system problem (Kia dealer and carmax where I bought it say there's no problem) or just a design issue.

 

I think there may be a misinterpretation of the display screen numbers in post #10. The PHEV range of X miles in the top photo IS related to the percentage of PHEV energy information in the bottom photo. When fully charged (from AC power), percentage energy should be 100% and the EV range should be around 22-26 miles. As one drives in the EV mode (or auto mode), the EV range will decrease until zero then the ICE engine will kick in, likewise the percentage of PHEV energy will decrease to a low single digit. This should not be a cause for alarm, since the ICE engine will provide power to charge the battery (that energy will be used to propel the vehicle). Under conditions of zero EV range, the vehicle will act as a pure HEV (regular gas hybrid vehicle) and you will not be in any danger of being stranded (as long as you have gas in the tank). Normal driving (at least prolonged freeway speed driving on flat roadway) in HEV mode will not appreciably add to the EV range (and also not significantly increase the PHEV energy percentage).

There is absolutely no harm in driving your PHEV when it has "0" PHEV range.

Not sure what the audible alarm was--the chimes on the first gen Niros sound alike, so I don't find them particularly helpful, sometimes the lane assist warning will chime if the camera can't see the lane lines. Also, if one has cruise control engaged and one keeps ones foot on the gas pedal during heavy traffic, the cruise control will be canceled and you get the generic chime.

 

Sorry, but I think this is confusing things more. If by the PHEV range you mean electric only miles + hybrid miles, that's not actually shown in any of these photos. That would be under the letter A in this updated photo. The electric only miles in this photo is zero, at the letter B. The hybrid (electric + ICE) miles in this photo are not visible here either, but would be at the letter C. The entire battery percentage (not miles), which powers both electric-only and hybrid (electric + ICE) is shown in D+E, and listed in the PHEV infotainment screen at F.
My other warnings are very different beeps. This was a chime, the same kind of sound you get with "take a break," but it was not telling me to take a break.

 

Dan—if the EV range reads 0 miles does the % PHEV energy information read 16? I thought the PHEV information number was the amount of energy allocated to the PHEV function. Am trying to understand why the OP is so concerned.

 

if the EV range reads 0 miles does the % PHEV energy information read 16?

That is the percentage that Kia uses for the changeover from PHEV to HEV mode, although I've seen my '24 kick over as high as 18%. And as mentioned, depending on the current driving conditions it can continue to drop into the single digits. I think 8% is the lowest I've seen. Slowing down will allow the battery to gain some charge back.

Don't forget the size difference in battery capacity for the PHEV compared to the HEV. When my '24 is at 16%, it still has about 1.7kWh remaining, which is more than the HEV has at full charge. The first gen Niro PHEV has a smaller battery, but still at 16% it's around 1.4kWh, which again is just a hair less than the HEV with a full charge. The OP's Niro at 4% still has about 0.35kWh, which is more than 20% of an HEV battery. So a PHEV even with only 4% in the battery is still within the normal range of power needed for hybrid mode.

 

Shouldn’t the system be set up that there will always be enough energy in the traction battery to keep the hybrid system going? One would hope that when the traction battery energy level drops to a certain point, the gas engine will kick in and provide power in the form of electricity to propel the vehicle? Seems that once the EV range zeroes out, the ice engine goes on and off just like a pure hybrid vehicle.

I think the OP is concerned that he may be left high and dry if the EV range goes too low. I am not convinced that this should be a problem.

A few times a month since we bought the Niro (almost 49k miles and over 3 years ago) we will take a long road trip and the EV range goes to zero, and we have never encountered a problem.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that it should operate just that way, once the EV range zeroes out the ICE engine kicks in and it's like a pure hybrid. You are almost right about my (OP) concern: I'm concerned about being left high and dry, not if the EV (miles) goes too low (I drive it with 0 EV miles when my errands around town go beyond that) but if the traction battery (percentage) goes too low when it's in hybrid mode. One would hope that doesn't happen, but my recent trip, with the warning chimes and 2% battery (overall), made me question that.
I am still wondering if there's something wrong with my individual vehicle's battery management system, but two mechanics have said no (no codes), no one else seems to have had a similar experience (which is not a bad thing), and I don't have any more 1000 mile trips planned for the near future, so I can't really test it out again right now. Fingers crossed that if something goes wrong on the next long trip, it's before the battery warranty runs out.

 

Forgive me for being stupid, but doesn't the PHEV self charge?

 

The PHEV can be plugged in to charge the battery, just like an EV. Can the battery be charged by the engine? Under certain conditions, yes. But it’s more economical to plug it in and drive in EV mode as much as possible. Using the engine to charge the battery reduces gas mileage by about 10%.