Stutter/Jerk Problem!!!

Oded BD · Aug 17, 2017

Hello All,

Following the post from JosephO - I was surprised to find out that someone else in the world (at least one...) has the same problem as I have. Only last week I found out by reading this forum that I'm not the only one that have such a problem.
I bought a new Kia Niro on Jan 2017. Unfortunately form Feb 2017 I am dealing with this issue in front of Kia Israel technicians and the official dealer.
If I had to describe the problem - it would have sound EXACTLY the same as what Mr. JosephO described. I have the exact same issue.
Until a month ago the dealer admitted there's a problem and felt the sutter themselves. They connected a recording device to the car and claim they didn't see a thing on the computer. Their claim was that this is a miss-firing problem and following Kia's instructions their solution was replacing the injectors - which of course didn't solve a thing. The car continues to stutter. Sometime these are heavy stutters.
Now they have started to dismiss the issue and decided to blame it on the road conditions and claim this is how that car behaves naturally...!!! On my last meeting with them they offered me to replace the car on an improved leasing deal - which actually proves they recognize there's a real problem in addition to their previous admision to the problem. The more severe issue, is that according to what JosephO wrote, Kia probably had known about this problem and the Kia representatives didn't share the whole truth and told me that Kia had never seen such an issue. This sounds like someone is hiding the truth.
If they don't find a way to solve this to my satisfaction, I will most likely have no other option but to take it to court.
The public has the right to know about these defects and how the car manufacturer deals with its customers. Make your decisions wisely.
If you have a proposal or can share more about such an issue, please respond.

Thanks,
Oded

Blackdog · Aug 8, 2018

I have the same problem ,had it to two dealers ..no error codes .very annoying don't know what to do .Other wise luv the car

yticolev · Aug 8, 2018

Could you describe your problem? There are several issues reported that are quite different.

PAULRIDES · Aug 8, 2018

Surging, Jerking, or Whatever is still a noticeable characteristic on my 2017 EX with extra Pkg which includes a DUMB (my opinion) Sunroof in the Pkg (bought FEB 2017 as first NIRO car on dealers lot) and have 15,853 miles on todays Fill -Up.

Have noticed the Surg, Jerk, Whatever problem since new and just ignored (lived with) it.

I will say it is more noticeable now than when new. It occurs or is more noticeable during the first part of a trip. Can't say how many miles (might take a guess at first 10 miles). Then gets better (sometimes not noticed at all and sometimes feel it slightly).

I would say most of the time I am in the range of 40 to 55 MPH (as that is also range of most of our driving at least for the first 10 miles or so).

These NIROs have a DESIGN FAULT (Dual Clutch problem is my guess).

That said, I still like it and like the MPG (around 51 MPG average for the 15,853 miles per my FUELLY inputs) and I would buy another knowing what I know now.

That said, I may not buy another NIRO --- not because of the Surging, Jerking, Whatever you call it, just cause I would want a different car experience.

I sure do like the 50 MPG idea even though we only drive around 12,000 a year and not saving more than $400 to $500 on gas per year.

yticolev · Aug 9, 2018

Surging or jerking at 45 mph definitely should be a warranty issue. My car has never experienced that so a design flaw is out. Seems more likely to be a software than a hardware issue. If the dealer cannot verify the problem, ask for a hard reset. Does this happen only on cruise control, or both CC and manual?

Ruzzell · Aug 9, 2018

It does seem subtle and intermittent, but I have noticed the stutter / nonsmooth driving at 40-50 mph. Its only when the engine is first started in the morning and I have noticed that using sport mode, it seems to be less noticable. After about 5-10 mins the engine usually seems to have warmed up enough and I don’t experience it again. I have a 2017 HEV Niro EX.

yticolev · Aug 9, 2018

Sounds like it could be a bad injector.

yticolev · Aug 9, 2018

Sounds like it could be an injector issue. I don't believe those throw error codes.

Blackdog · Aug 13, 2018

so I was talking to the service dept ,he sent Kia's statement ...PS 481 dual ...erisstics pdf ,has it been posted on this site ,how can I post a screen shot ? thanks ....

CaMeL · Aug 15, 2018

I think I experienced a similar sign of jerking.
Do you think it is a bad injector?

CaMeL · Aug 17, 2018

Mainly I feel that when gas engine is cold but also a little bit when hot. Do you think that it is related with injectors? I think I have not feel it from the beginning.

mcalpage · Aug 24, 2018

2017 Niro Stuttering and Hesitation an EGR System Problem

I have a 2017 Niro I bought in Louisiana in late November 2017. I was visiting Michigan when the recall notice came and I took the car to a dealership in Michigan for the work. Coincidentally, about that time, it developed the jerking and hesitation well described in Mitch Bowe post to this thread dated June 2018. The tech said that their dealerships had seen 3 other 2017 Niros with similar problems with the EGR system and had to replace the engines. This is what was done on Mitch's's car, so Kia is undoubtedly aware that some 2017s have this problem and that the only solution is engine replacement.

Because of how long it would take to get approval, the new engine, etc., the Michigan tech recommended that I have the work done in Louisiana. Well, it turns out that the dealership where I bought the car doesn't have a tech who is certified to work on hybrids -- even though they sell them. I have contacted two other area dealerships still with no luck. So, I may have to get the work done when I go back to Michigan later this year. I was assured by the Michigan tech that the problem wasn't something that would cause the engine to fail and leave me stranded by the side of the road. It is a performance problem. Still, getting onto busy the interstate when the car stutters and hesitates rather than accelerating properly is a bit tense.

I am hoping to get this problem resolved because I love the car.

lccobb · Sep 7, 2018

Stuttering or Mis-Fire: I have a 2017 Niro Turing purchased in March of 2017. Around 8,000 miles I started experiencing the problem. I have noticed that I MPG has fallen from a normal 45/46 to 39/41 these past 2,000 miles or so. I now have 11,500 miles and it seems that the stuttering is getting worse and is becoming a problem. At my 10,000 mile service I made the dealer aware but they said it did not mis perform for them.

What are my best options at this point. I plan to set an appt with my dealer to have them drive and test. If some of you Senior members could address this issue with me it would be appreciated. TULSA. OK

bscotti · Sep 16, 2018

EGR Valve problem may be why the car is shuttering

I have had by 2017 Kia Niro at the dealer for 3 months. 14K miles. Shutter was terrible. After interacting with the Kia TA Center in California, the dealer said the problem is with the EGR Valve (exhaust gas recirculation). They have put in a new short block engine, new head and replaced the EGR Valve. They say they are waiting for an EGR 'tube' on back order. I'm concerned about this fix and wonder if anyone else has had this and if it fixes the problem for good. Anyone???

bscotti · Sep 17, 2018

This is what my dealer in Indiana has said the problem is. They have replaced the engine, with a short block, put in a new head and EGR valve. They are waiting on something they are calling an EGR tube on back order. Has anyone had this type of fix and does it actually work?

bscotti · Sep 17, 2018

Have you got the vehicle back? Did the engine replacement correct the problem?

ponymony · Oct 7, 2018

I have the issue. It is very annoying and I regret having this car. 3 times in the garage and they don’t know how to solve it. Last time they told me it is water in the fuel. They cleaned the fuel tank and system. I got the car and it was stinking of fuel but the stuttering still exists....

Dakota Niro PHEV · Nov 19, 2018

Carbon encrusted intake valves

The problem is caused by carbon encrusted intake valves. Gasoline Direct Injected engines have the injectors on the inside of the combustion chamber rather than at the port of the intake valve. The intake valve never gets washed by fuel and no amount of additive added to your gas tank will help. This problem affects many different cars with GDI. The Positive Crankcase Ventilation and Exhaust gas Recirculation gets returned to the intake manifold and it is the carbon from those dirty fumes that build up on the port side of the valves.

Again, port fuel injected engines get the valves cleaned by the fuel from the port injectors, Direct Injected engines do NOT.

Roberd42 · Feb 27, 2019

its poor casting in the primary engine components. Im going through it on 2017 Niro number two. Been through lemon law arbitration on it once, and Im about to go again. I thought I just got a "lemon" and bought another. Nope, same stuff. Found these photos of a cylinder head on another forum.

Part of my rebuttal to the arbitrator:

I have attached screenshots and photos of internet forum conversations by other Kia Niro (and Hyundai Ioniq – which shares the same Kappa drivetrain as the Kia Niro ) owners. These forum conversations list at least eight owners that have had the same stuttering, jerking, misfiring issues that I have experienced. These are only the owners that experienced these issues and that have come forward online. There may be many more unaccounted in this short survey. One owner in Europe of a Kappa powered Hyundai Ioniq, even has pictures [attached] that show the primary engine components were incorrectly cast or milled at the factory, leading to misfiring and skipping issues. This demonstrates that this is a known issue with this drivetrain. One forum suggests that this issue also may negatively impact the emissions of the vehicle also: “The German Auto Club (ADAC) recently ecotested the Ioniq, Niro, Prius and dozens of other hybrid, diesel and gas cars. It found that many GDI cars, including Ioniq and Niro, failed the CO and PN parts of the Euro6 emissions regulations on their cycle (based on the upcoming WLTP). Ioniq had triple the allowed CO and 4 times the PN. Ioniq scored 5.1 l/100km fuel consumption while the Niro got 5.8. Meanwhile, the Prius passed all emissions rules with ease and got 4.1l/100km. Based on this, the Ioniq and Niro are not ecofriendly and may not even be legal.” I recently owned two Volkswagen Diesels that were affected by the EPA forced buyback. This information makes me begin to question the integrity of these large vehicle manufacturers when it comes to these issues.

ponymony · Feb 28, 2019

Roberd42 said:
its poor casting in the primary engine components. Im going through it on 2017 Niro number two. Been through lemon law arbitration on it once, and Im about to go again. I thought I just got a "lemon" and bought another. Nope, same stuff. Found these photos of a cylinder head on another forum.

Part of my rebuttal to the arbitrator:

I have attached screenshots and photos of internet forum conversations by other Kia Niro (and Hyundai Ioniq – which shares the same Kappa drivetrain as the Kia Niro ) owners. These forum conversations list at least eight owners that have had the same stuttering, jerking, misfiring issues that I have experienced. These are only the owners that experienced these issues and that have come forward online. There may be many more unaccounted in this short survey. One owner in Europe of a Kappa powered Hyundai Ioniq, even has pictures [attached] that show the primary engine components were incorrectly cast or milled at the factory, leading to misfiring and skipping issues. This demonstrates that this is a known issue with this drivetrain. One forum suggests that this issue also may negatively impact the emissions of the vehicle also: “The German Auto Club (ADAC) recently ecotested the Ioniq, Niro, Prius and dozens of other hybrid, diesel and gas cars. It found that many GDI cars, including Ioniq and Niro, failed the CO and PN parts of the Euro6 emissions regulations on their cycle (based on the upcoming WLTP). Ioniq had triple the allowed CO and 4 times the PN. Ioniq scored 5.1 l/100km fuel consumption while the Niro got 5.8. Meanwhile, the Prius passed all emissions rules with ease and got 4.1l/100km. Based on this, the Ioniq and Niro are not ecofriendly and may not even be legal.” I recently owned two Volkswagen Diesels that were affected by the EPA forced buyback. This information makes me begin to question the integrity of these large vehicle manufacturers when it comes to these issues.

With all the above, How do you explain that the jerking happens mostly when the engine is cold?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

jmurphEV · Feb 27, 2019

Wow, that's pretty interesting. What surprises me is that that head passed QC and was installed on a customer car. I find it hard to believe that those parts are not milled on CNC machines which would make an error like this either ubiquitous or the result of a broken machine. It certainly looks from the photos like that port was incorrectly machined which would definitely lead to running problems.

Obviously the problem is not ubiquitous as if it were every Niro and Ioniq would be showing the same symptoms. I wonder if the problem is limited to a batch or batches of cylinder heads. Do you know the build dates of you current and previous vehicles? Not that that would be definitive, vehicle build date doesn't say anything about when the cylinder head was fabricated.

Very curious. Sorry you ended up with 2 problem cars, that sucks. Good luck getting it resolved.

6042 · Feb 28, 2019

Sorry to hear, that you have the same problem again.

Do you have links to some or all of the forums where you found all that info. Could be an interesting read...

lafe005 · Feb 28, 2019

This is why i always insert a fuel cleaner 4 times a year. I have done this since my 2010 Sonata and my 3 kia's with the GDI system. Even some times, i fuel up with "Super" (1 out of 5) too help it work. Thanks to my mecanic idea for this, i never had a problem since..

nounounounou · Feb 28, 2019

there is a point that contradict your theorie here

Dakota Niro PHEV said:
The problem is caused by carbon encrusted intake valves. Gasoline Direct Injected engines have the injectors on the inside of the combustion chamber rather than at the port of the intake valve. The intake valve never gets washed by fuel and no amount of additive added to your gas tank will help. This problem affects many different cars with GDI. The Positive Crankcase Ventilation and Exhaust gas Recirculation gets returned to the intake manifold and it is the carbon from those dirty fumes that build up on the port side of the valves.

Again, port fuel injected engines get the valves cleaned by the fuel from the port injectors, Direct Injected engines do NOT.

one of you is wrong and I tend to believe Dakota Niro as the fuel (with or without additive) will not clean the intake valve as it is not touching it (direct injection)... I might say that it is a known problem of direct injection (for example I read about it on subaru forester 2.0 turbo)

yticolev · Feb 28, 2019

Fuel won't clean your intake valves with direct injection. Happy you don't have any problems, but guess what, I don't either without the extra cost. Reasonable for port injection of course. Who knows, perhaps it could help keep your direct injectors clean in a way that the high pressure and ignition cycle cannot.

lafe005 · Feb 28, 2019

ok! so how do you clean it "doctor" ?!!!

Roadkill401 · Feb 28, 2019

So, to throw a different idea out there. I can't change the design of the engine. I can however with a bumper to bumper warranty with Kia and demand that the ports get cleaned. Now it will be harder to do in 5 years, but what would you be looking for in diagnosable issues that would point to carbon buildup on the ports say in the 7-10 year mark where you can force KIA to fix the engine and solve the problem they designed into the car.

Mal · Mar 3, 2019

Just another reason I'm a believer in synthetic oil. It has a higher flash point than conventional oils therefore, only a guess, less likely to foul intake valves. I install catch cans in my hobby cars and likely will in Niro if I keep it past the warranty.

Roberd42 · Mar 4, 2019

The only thing I can figure is the flow is different with cold air vs warm air. The ambient temperature and humidity plays a larger roll. Low temps and high humidity are the worst.

They now have submitted a several page discourse saying the surging us normal action for the dual clutch transmission and that there is no problem with the car and I’m just unhappy with the way it drives. Then they bring up the last car and it’s issues and claim I shouldn’t have bought another Niro and that I shouldn’t be allowed to Lemon two cars, attacking my personal character and trying to gaslight me. These guys are sooooo sleezy. This company itself and their dealer Evans Kia are horrible and I can’t even express my disgust.

I can provide links to the other forum conversations on this topic. They are an excellent read.

Both of my cars were 2017 Niros. It’s my understanding this defect has been rectified in the 2018 model.

First Niro: KNDCC3LC9H5034917
Second: KNDCC3LC8H5092520

Roberd42 · Mar 4, 2019

I sued the dealer in small claims court for my “usage” damages of almost $2500 for the dealers negligent misrepresentation that the faulty engine was normal action of the car on the test drive. The dealer sent it to KMA who didn’t respond and I won a default judgement paid by KMA on the dealers behalf. Now they are bringing up that as well in their defense.

I didn’t feel a single stutter out of the next Niro until about 1,200 miles. Second or third time I felt it, i went straight to the dealer to mitigate usage charges. Sure enough, the symptoms steadily get worse. My last fill up yielded 36mpg.

Stutter/Jerk Problem!!!

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