[atc98092]

Maybe another way to explain, from the thing you plug into the car (the plug we would call it, cable would refer to the wires) the car can determine Level 1, Level 2, DC high voltage.

The car will only draw a max 12 amps is what is being stated. Of course drawing 12 amps at 240 volts is different than drawing 12 amps at 110.

In the USA, where we have 110v utility outlets, you can get faster charging if you can take the L1 "charger" and connect it to 240v in some cases.

This was the case with my Fiat 500e EV, so you got a faster charge if you fed the 110v "charger" with 240... not approved by Fiat, but many people had success.

So if your supplied L1 charger can handle 240v and you connect 240v to it, then it should charge the car faster than on 110v, but this all ASSUMES that the car itself, where the "charger" really resides, does indeed allow 12 amps at 240v

Greg

Don't confuse L1/L2 charging and DCFC. Completely different things and not related, other than using the same connection (kinda, since DCFC has the two extra connections). For L1/L2 charging, the charger itself is contained in the car, and the cable (EVSE) is merely used as a connection. Each EVSE is rated at a maximum current level, regardless of what the vehicle can accept. The EVSE included with the car is only good for 12 amps, regardless of feeding it 120 or 240 VAC. You can buy inexpensive (under $200) EVSEs that are rated at 16 amps, which is the maximum level the PHEV can accept. With the Niro EV, the on-board charger can accept 32 amps, which at 240v is 7.6kW. But the EVSE included with the car is still limited to 12 amps, which at 120v is 1.4 kW.

Yes, the factory EVSE will charge faster if it's connected to 240v, but it's still limited to 12 amps. So you only get ~2.9 kW, which is far less than the 7.6 kW the car can accept. Faster than 120v, yes, by a factor of 2. But still much, much slower than a 240v EVSE that provides 32 amps.

That's why it takes so much longer to charge a PHEV/EV at 120v. Since the owner might only have 15 amp circuits in their garage, they won't include an EVSE that supports a higher rate. It's a safety issue. For any plug-in car, it's worth the investment to install at minimum a 16 amp 240v EVSE. I installed a 40 amp EVSE, even though my PHEV only accepts 16 amps, since I'll likely get a full EV when my lease it up and I wanted to be ready.

 

[JDC]

Thank you all for the consideration, thorough information and help. I have a better understanding. Will button up a 50A ChargePoint in the a.m.

 

[tigerucla]

We've been using our stock Chevy Volt EVSE plugged into a dryer outlet (via a pigtail adapter) for 4 years with no problems. It charges roughly twice as fast as it would plugged into a standard 120V outlet. And there's a guy on this thread (Convert stock Niro L1 charger to L2? No) who's been doing the same with a stock Niro EVSE with similar results. A real L2 charger would charge a little bit faster than that, but it's not as big of a difference. Many people believe that the stock EVSE is likely the same as the ones they give to people in Europe, but with a 5-15 120v plug attached. If that's true, then it should be able to handle 240 volts just fine. As always, YMMV and proceed at your own risk.

 

[atc98092]

We've been using our stock Chevy Volt EVSE plugged into a dryer outlet (via a pigtail adapter) for 4 years with no problems. It charges roughly twice as fast as it would plugged into a standard 120V outlet.

Twice as fast is still extremely slow for a BEV. That's still only 12 amps, compared to the 32 amps the car can accept. It can be more than enough for a PHEV, absolutely. Just depends on your driving and charging patterns. Remember the original poster has the EV, not the PHEV.

 

[tigerucla]

Twice as fast is still extremely slow for a BEV. That's still only 12 amps, compared to the 32 amps the car can accept. It can be more than enough for a PHEV, absolutely. Just depends on your driving and charging patterns. Remember the original poster has the EV, not the PHEV.

Excellent points. You had mentioned earlier that for any plug in vehicle, it's worth installing at minimum a 16 amp 240v EVSE. Definitely for BEV, but maybe not for a PHEV.

 

[atc98092]

Excellent points. You had mentioned earlier that for any plug in vehicle, it's worth installing at minimum a 16 amp 240v EVSE. Definitely for BEV, but maybe not for a PHEV.

Depends on the typical use of the PHEV. I find that since I've been working from home since all this COVID nonsense started, my driving is a lot of short trips. Having my L2 charger ensures it's always full for the next trip. If I were still commuting to the office, I would get home with zero battery left, but I also seldom went anywhere after getting home. In that case the L1 charger would be enough to be ready to go the next morning. As I get close to retirement, I see most of my driving being a lot of shorter trips, so the (relatively) quick fill up is nice.

The time difference between the L1 and L2 charger for the PHEV (assuming zero range on the battery) is over 5 1/2 hours at L1 vs. about 2:20 for the L2. I feel it's well worth the expense.

 

[tigerucla]

The time difference between the L1 and L2 charger for the PHEV (assuming zero range on the battery) is over 5 1/2 hours at L1 vs. about 2:20 for the L2. I feel it's well worth the expense.

We're still using L1 for our Niro PHEV for the same reasons you mentioned. But if we needed to charge faster, given the choice between 3:00 hours to charge with a $30 or less pigtail adapter vs 2:20 hours with a $170 new EVSE, I personally would choose the adapter. I could see why some would still choose to buy a new EVSE, though.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Dan, in part of your post you admonish me to not get L1 and L2 confused.

Then you say the "charger" puts out 12 amps no matter if 120v or 220v ..

Clearly if 12 amps flows, the wattage into the car is DOUBLE on 220v....

Is there some confusion? If what you say is true, then the difference in charging time should be double between 120v and 220v....

Greg

 

[atc98092]

Actually, I said not to confuse L1/L2 with DCFC. Yes, if you double the voltage with the same current, you double the wattage (Ohm's law). My point is the factory EVSE is limited to 12 amps, regardless of voltage. A Level 2 EVSE has at least 16 amp circuit, and that extra 4 amps makes a noticeable difference in charging times with the EV. Since your EV supports up to 32 amps, there's a huge difference in charging times between using the factory EVSE at 240v and a 32 amp Level 2 EVSE.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

OK, we are now on same page. So here in the USA, often we can get "more" from the 110v charger by running it on 220, definitely not near what my L2 charger will do... (40 amp in my case).

Greg

 

[JDC]

Excellent info in this thread. Thank you, all.

 

[Epowrd]

Sorry to butt into this thread. I just picked up a 2021 Niro EV. We already have a Tesla wall charger that is set to 80 amp output. Will the internals of Niro be able to deal with the 80 amps it gets offered? Does anyone have experience charging their Niro off of that with a Tesla to J1772 adapter?

Thanks for any insights you all can provide.

 

[atc98092]

Sorry to butt into this thread. I just picked up a 2021 Niro EV. We already have a Tesla wall charger that is set to 80 amp output. Will the internals of Niro be able to deal with the 80 amps it gets offered? Does anyone have experience charging their Niro off of that with a Tesla to J1772 adapter?

Thanks for any insights you all can provide.

It doesn't matter how powerful the EVSE is. The Niro EV has a 32 amp on board charger, and that's all it will accept. I charged my Niro PHEV (16 amp charger) on a 40 amp Juicebox all the time. The charger in the car will only take the amount of power it can handle. Your Tesla EVSE is capable of 80 amps, but it only puts out what the car will accept.

 

[Epowrd]

Great, thanks. I thought so but wasn't all that sure and didn't want to damage the charger or the EVSE.

 

[Epowrd]

Great, thanks. I thought so but wasn't all that sure and didn't want to damage the charger or the EVSE